UKC

I've seen quite a few comments about using maillons as bailing gear being a pain for subsequent leaders.

 So I've decided to replace all mine with locking carabiners.

This is the cheapest, rated one, I can find:-

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Workwear+%26+Safety/d70/Height+Safety/sd29...

I just wanted a second opinion from the community before I buy.

One of the reasons people carry a maillon in case of bale out is because they are small and light. Those things are big and heavy.

I have a couple of old snap gates in the bag. If the route looks like I might potentially not get to the top I clip one to the back of my harness.

W

Why are maillons a pain for subsequent leaders?

All my bale out krabs are free - either ones I have retrieved from other people's bale outs or else retired frm my own rack but still plenty good enough to lower off on. Plus in these days of clipsticks etc I can't actually remember the last time I left one behind but maybe I just need to be more ambitious

People say they can be make it awkward to place a qd and can corrode shut if left for a while.

Because they reduce the size/block the hole in the hanger but may not themselves be rated to take a fall (as opposed to lowering off) if clipped directly?

I have two retired snap gate krabs I carry my nut key and prussiks on.  These then get used as bail out / extra gear / belay krabs as necessary.

I can do this because I've been around long enough to having upgraded to predominantly lighter gear about twice on average.

If I was in the market for a bail out to buy, I'd scan the bargain buckets for the cheapest small wiregate I could get hold of.  

Just use the oldest/ugliest screw gate you got. Biners are cheap. Steel biners are a little cheaper; but heavy and bulky. I mean a Decathlon screwgate is less than a fiver. Why haul the weight all the time for the few occasions you need them. It's not even 2 pounds difference. 

Maillons are often not rated (you can get more expensive rated ones), they rust shut, block the bolt.

The same is likely to apply to a cheap steel carabiner, or any screwgate for that matter.  (Especially if you can't resist the urge to 'just check' it's done up tight after you have committed your weight to it.)

Bogwalloper & GrahamD have it right, just carry a couple of old snapgates.  (Or a cheap new one if you haven't been at this long enough to have retired any quickdraws yet.)

To be any good, a maillon has to be screwed up properly.  Because they block up the hanger they will have to be unscrewed and removed by the next leader and that is hard to do if you are trying to lead the route cleanly.  A snap gate is relatively easy to remove.

That makes sense. I was imagining a trad scenario.

Just use whatever you have to hand when the time comes, chances are with a little creativity you'll never need to anyway to or by the time you do your scruffiest bits will owe you nothing. Even then, climb long enough and you'll realise what goes around comes around, a fair chunk of my rack is salvaged bail gear, I'm sure the few bits I've left over the years found equally happy homes.

jk

These are cheaper and lighter https://www.angloaccess.co.uk/mallions/standard-shape-mallion.html

Probably cheaper elsewhere too, but this came up 1st.

http://www.gsproducts.co.uk/stainless-steel-pear-quick-links/  £2.63

I reckon even in a trad scenario you are better off carrying a snap gate which can be used e.g to turn a hex into an emergency extender when you run out, or to carry your nut key etc. etc.

would anyone use one of these? 29p 8mm galv. similar to some lower off used in spain.

I'm very sceptical about using maillons as bail biners after seeing someone take a groundfall when lowering off a 6 mm maillon. I think it was just tightened finger tight and placed upside down, so that as the rope went through it lowering it unscrewed it. The gate open strength of maillons is very small, the maillon bent open and the climber fell to the ground. He suffered relatively minor injuries considering, but these included a collapsed lung. I understand that maillons aren't inherently dangerous, but it always worries me when people have them on their harnesses as I very much doubt that people do more than tighten them finger tight. 

I'd leave my entire rack behind if it meant a safe escape. I have not bailed on a sport route for probably a decade. Trad route a few times but happy to leave the gear behind. Why worry about cost? It's rare and and the grand scheme of life, cheap.

Why would you lower off? wouldn't you abb off, from the middle of the rope?

Ah! are you talking about lowering down from a sports route?

Even so wouldn't you simply put the rope through so it would tighten the mallion?

It's not much harder than remembering to put two quick draws with opposing gates.

I have some reasonable wiregates if you want £3 each ????

I have some reasonable wiregates if you want £3 each ????