UKC

So according to the U.K. government (admittedly not the most reliable source these days) if we leave the EU without a deal then we’ll only be able to spend a maximum of three months in the EU at one go. 

No more dirtbagging around Spain for months on end then, unless you’re willing to do tedious visa runs every 12 weeks. 

One has to wonder if this will be a feature even of a “deal” Brexit. 

Anyhow, not being able to travel around with the freedoms we once had is clearly an amazing benefit which I for one cannot wait to enjoy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/travelling-to-the-eu-with-a-uk-p...

Admittedly, there are more serious risks involved with the upcoming 'taking back of control' but, even so, it didn't take long for you to attract a phantom disliker. Congratulations for that! (I'm imagining an apoplectic gammon choking on his bacon buttie...)

As a broader point, I'm not really sure why the government are releasing these scare stories, and can only assume its to rally support for the chequers proposal (not so stupid as its the only proposal we've got....). 

However, it comes across as a leavers version of project fear. On the travel front, I drove around Europe extensively on a paper license before the free movement thing came in, and can't remember ever having problems. I certainly didnt get any visa's when spending many months in the alps in the mid 80's.

Also, the mobile roaming charges one seems highly disingenious given that 3 of the major networks have already stated they will not be reintroducing roaming charges....however, some people will believe anything; on a facbook thread about roaming charges, one contributor thought that roaming charges had been abolished as a result of the brexit vote...........

You might want to brush up on your history timeline there, since by that time the UK had already been a member of the EC (later to morph into the EU) for over 10 years. Not that visas per se would have been required before that, but certainly there would have been restrictions on one's ability to stay in a different country for extended periods.

(I like your migrating apostrophe too

In the scheme of things they seem to be irritants rather than serious effects, so I suspect you are right. Carney seems to be highlighting some of the more serious possibilities.

There was something on the radio about this last night. Apparently its provider-provider charges that may return.  So if I use my phone in Spain, my UK provider will be billed by the Spanish one.  Since more Brits go to Spain than the reverse, this could lead to costs to my provider.  To date the phrasing on roaming charges to individuals has been "no plans to...", so don't count your chickens on this.

Must be one of the main reasons. Also actually useful info for people who need to plan ahead (e.g. EU nationals in the UK, those with EU travel planned post-march etc)

I'd take anything any of the major phone networks say with a pinch of salt.

House prices to drop by 35%! I would imagine that's got most of the millennials and post millennials on board rooting a no deal BREXIT

Indeed, but making life worse in lots of small unpleasant ways seems as much a part of Brexit as making life worse in large dramatic ways.

As for “scare stories” I prefer “consequences”, because I find the former reflects the profound lack of seriousness which got us into this delightful state of affairs. 

Aware we had been a member for >10 years, but the rules changed significantly, as in the 70's, we were in the "Common Market", nothing to do with freedom of movment. - I remember a school trip to Germany in 1976 or 1977 when we got stopped at the Belgian / German border and every passport on the coach got stamped (4 teachers and approx 35 kids between 12 and 14). In student days and beyond, I spent significant periods (months at a time) with no visa etc, but then again it was in the form of an extended holiday (climbing / caving, usually), and I didn't exactly announce my arrival / presence to the authorities. Whether I should or not is unknown to me, but there was never any comeback......

Freedom of movement also applies to punctuation; didn't you know? I'm not sure how brexit will affect the written word, but it's something I'm sure is addressed in the chequers proposal. I wait with interest to see if I have to tighten up my UKC writing style post Mar 19.

I'm sue the networks are all monitoring things, and indeed their stance may change, so no long term chickens being counted. However I give their words much more credence than those of the government. In any case, my provider (3) removed roaming charges before they were forced to (starting in 2013 for countries in which they had a sister network, both within and without the EU). Each of the networks will have their business model, and they will follow whichever path they think suits them best, roaming charges or not.

No, there are still charges in place but the EU has forced a cap on them and (I think) the inability to charge this on to the consumer. What will happen when we leave the EU sans deal is that this will no longer cover us, so the charges could be double, tripled, whatever.. over night, which the operators would be under no obligation not to pass on to us.

Interesting the levels of media (almost) hysteria surrounding the possible return of roaming charges. The cap was only introduced 15 months ago, so we are only going back to market conditions that existed in the last calendar, year where networks could charge consumers, and some of them had already chosen not to some 3yrs prior. This really is the most meaningless "panic over nothing" currently circulating.

I'm not sure why people keep rattling on about visas. I've read the link and, unless I've missed something, I can seen no mention of UK nationals needing a visa to visit EU countries.

My memory is that UK nationals did not require visas prior to UK membership of EU. The only formality was that UK nationals presented their passports at a border and collected a rubber stamp.

If the Schengen countries are now regarded as one single state I can't see the problem for a UK national to move around in that "state" once they have presented their passport at the point of entry into Schengenland.

Such house price crashes rarely support the poor and lower middle clases who have the most problematic housing needs: the knock on effects mean everyone has less money, people get stuck in negative equity, morgages become more difficult and many will have no job at all.  In contrast rich people can just buy the assets cheaper. Brexit was always really stupid for the poor and a great opportunity for the rich which was why the likes of immoral conmen like Banks and Farrage were so keen on whipping up popularist bollocks on the EU.

http://www.stephenfry.com/2008/11/dont-mind-your-language…/

There are about milion foreigners in the EU without valid documents and it does not seem that it would make the authorities too nervous.

It would be discriminatory if they were more strict on the British than on the Moroccan, would not it?

Well, at least you’re admitting we’re going backwards. 

In the 80s the U.K. was already a member of the EC.

Besides, immigration systems in the West  are unrecognisable from what they were in the 80s. At the time you could pretty much go in most western countries, the rules were lax, and people just overstayed their visas with little to no consequences

These days not only it's very strict, but if you do overstay you end up in jail and then you are summarily deported, and it stays on your record for ever. So the consequences can be huge.

I keep hearing this argument of "ho well people moved around before" but this is not like before. Movement between countries is nowadays a privilege that only a very small proportion of people, the brightest and richest have access to. Unless you have something like reciprocal freedom of movement

Look at how much people are prepared to pay to buy an EU citizenship. That should give you an idea of its market value.

Not sure what you are getting at....my original post concerned how i felt the government were putting out scare stories about no deal in order to bolster support for the chequers, with the 2 examples being visa free travel and roaming charges. Nothing about brexit per se.

But for the avoidance of doubt, I agree entirely that leaving the EU is a huge step backwards for the UK.

Yes, to visit, as a tourist, but not to stay. Typically it would be 90 days every 180 days. Also you are not allowed to conduct any business without work visa, you are not allowed to be looking for jobs either.

So clearly a big cost and big hurdle for the millions of people who go to an EU country for business every year and the companies that employ them. 

Doubt avoided!

Why would the authorities nerves worry anyone?

The problem is, if you want to go for a Spanish road trip (and you're not lucky enough to qualify for another European passport) you will be restricted to 90 days.

If you overstay, nothing much will happen, but when you do leave it will be noted, and you run the risk that the next time you want to clip some Spanish bolts, your entry will be declined.

I am lucky enough to qualify for an Irish passport, so I will still be able to do long road trips, however I will lose the benefit of the EU legislation that says if I insure my van in one EU country, I must be legally covered for the whole of the EU - back to forking out for European cover. Ah well, a small additional expense really... I do feel sorry for those who won't be able to stay the full season, or consider finding a job out there and staying.

Yeah but you know, sovereignty and that.

I envy you your Irish passport, my 12-year-old kid has just got herself a Swedish passport care of a maternal grandparent. I would advise anyone in a similar position to do the same. You guys will be the lucky ones when the grand plan is exposed (after the event) for what it is. Britannia is being scuttled in order for a few to make a killing from the salvage rights.