UKC

Hello all, 

Having just completed the Snowdon horseshoe and the corridor route up Scaffell pike last month, the next on our list is Ben Nevis! 
 

By the time my friend and i are able to get round to it, it will be winter conditions (November/december), which I understand will require the use of crampons and an ice axe, so my question is, is a winter skills course necessary? As together with the cost of travel, boots, crampons and everything else it will be pretty substantial! 
 

Looking forward to your answers and thanks in advance 

Personally I never got any professional paid training until I dipped into mixed winter climbing. I can only speak for myself but a mix of gradual progression through terrain,  reading of books and 'reliable' vids on youtube gave me a good start up to basic climbing. Depends on the person perhaps.

Look up 'self arrest' and have a go on a safe slope without any drops offs at the end of it. Keep to easy routes to start off with.

You're just as likely to have pouring rain as snow on the summit at that time of year, and I think you'd be lucky to get a winter skills course scheduled before December, but you never know.

Maybe I'll get some dislikes for this, but the Pony Track up Ben Nevis is fairly safe as winter walks are concerned (safer than Llanberis path up Snowdon), with nothing very steep or exposed as long as you keep to the path, which should be easy given the number of people who go up there. Once on the summit plateau, there are huge cairns which mark the way. I'd be happy enough in microspikes.

Edit: if you do decide you need crampons and an axe, I can recommend the BMC Winter Skills series on YouTube

In the UK I gradually moved from summer hill walking to winter conditions in pretty benign areas.  I got some crampons and a walking ice axe and just got out on simple slopes where a slip would not be a big issue.  That will get you used to talking in crampons safely and securely.  This takes time and practice and don't underestimate how easy it is to trip on crampons which can be really serious on exposed terrain.  In terms of the axe I used to carry it mainly to help me feel more secure but without the experience of knowing how to ice axe arrest.  In hindsight I should have practiced arresting early on.  Plenty of good videos out there and can be practiced in safety on concave slopes.  Check out the BMC winter skills videos

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/watch-and-learn-new-winter-skills-video-series

I then progressed to a proper Alpine skills course.  I got some good guidance on crampon technique (which would have been useful early on) but mainly this was about glacier travel so not relevant to the UK.

So get into it progressively building up your experience, comfort and competence.  There are plenty of easy outings where crampons and ice axe are useful but the terrain is still pretty straightforward (e.g. Snowdon via Pyg track, Helvellyn from swirls car park).  I would not attempt something like the Snowdon horseshoe until you are reasonably competent and confident as the terrain is very serious in winter conditions.

If there are two of you, hire a BMG for half a day or join a 2 day course with someone like PYB.  It will not cost the earth and will give you good training and the knowledge you know what you are doing.  Then build up experience of the back of that.  A little money spent now will lead to a lifetime of fun and great experiences.

Edited to disguise my stupidity.

Is not just the skills in using sharp point things that's worth getting some accurate and up to date training in, the conditions under which you'll be using then can get complex.

How good is your navigating, white outs are disorientating and scary, pacing is way different through soft snow and/or hard ice, you're going to have Avalanche forecasts as well as weather forecasts to interpret.

It's a bit like driving, getting a pal to teach you can be fine. But, are they going to pass on bad habits that they've just got away with so far, are they going to recognise new ones that your developing? Are they going to be applying the most current techniques and learning?

At a few hundred pounds winter skills courses can seem expensive, the person delivering them has probably spent thousands accessing those skills and knowledge, and the skills to pass them on effectively. 

Concave - so that you slow to a halt in the event of failure, rather than accelerate to make sure you don't forget your lesson

Damn, I thought I'd thought that through when I wrote convex.  I'll quickly edit it and no-one will be any the wiser of my stupidity.