UKC

Hi, I'm looking for some advice for a young climber aged 9 who has completed NICAS 3 and climbs at level of around 6A, and enjoys bouldering too. We don't think it's a good idea for her to move on to NICAS 4 as she is too short to complete harder climbs at our local indoor wall. 

Do you think she will continue to strengthen and improve if we "just" take her bouldering? There is no option locally to climb in a club unless you are good enough to compete - the only supervised classes are NICAS or NIBAs classes. So I was thinking if just taking her bouldering once a week until she grows a few inches. Any better suggestions?

Why not ask her how many times a week she wants to go climbing and what type of style she’d prefer to do more of?

Let her help inform you about how she develops.

Most importantly, forget about the grades; focus on enjoyment. She’s got many years ahead to bother about how hard she’s climbing.

Best of luck.

Why don't you try introducing her to outdoor climbing? Broaden the scope of her climbing experience etc

My daughter did Nicas One and two, some of her friends went on to the climbing acedemy, climbing at quite a High standard she was happy to do her own thing with interest ebbing and flowing. 
That was 5 years ago, of her friends she is the most regular climber and very determined to kick her dad’s  ass at climbing.

i guess I’m trying to say fit the climbing around your daughters nature, some people thrive in the structured nature of a NICAS type environment others appear too but then throw in the towel.

Exercise is a minefield for teenage girls with lots dropping out of any type of sport so tread carefully and accept interest may be up and down, (something difficult to accommodate in a structured program)

use climbings multi faceted nature to help make it stick, the outdoor aspect,  the intellectual aspect, the challenge, the social aspect.

proud Dad looking forward to getting crushed at the wall by his daughter and climbing buddy.

Just let he go climbing. Nicas isnt the be all and end all; go outdoors, let her climb with her pals at the wall; for whatever reason many many young girls seem to really like climbing, and it is not at all unusual to find that the majority of kids club participants are girls. Just let her do what she wants, with encouragement and positive guidance.

But one importamt point - don't link your daughters progress in whatever form of climbing to your perception of her inability to reach something. When my eldest was competing, there were very regular complaints about "my kid is too small and cant reach". THe winner of the comps was usually Shauna Coxsey, who was always one of the shortest there. If your daughter is particularly small, there will of course be times she cant reach something, but in the huge majority of cases, technique will prevail! Just look at the comp in Xiamen this weekend; nobody has ever accused Molly or Jim of being tall!

NICAS runs out of steam after a while, clubs or individual coaching are the way to go to develop technique.

Very often when something looks like it is impossible because you 'just can't reach' it could be done if you twisted in to reach further, relied on balance and footwork to step up without a good handhold or climbed more dynamically and used momentum.   This is the sort of thing a coach can help develop.  

When she gets stuck and thinks she can't reach it's important not to immediately conclude that is the problem even if it looks that way to you.  When a routesetter puts in a gap it isn't because they want to set a problem only tall people can climb it is because they want to test an aspect of grip strength or balance or technique.   The climber needs to think about what they could have had in mind.  Keep at it and try different things.   Of course, when you are 9 some moves might simply be impossible but you need to give things that initially look impossible a good try.

I used to climb with a Japanese dude. He was 5ft and could match me up virtually any route or problem (we climbed upto V5/6 outside & higher graded inside) - Especially true outside where there are more intricate options. Yes indoors may be more morphological, but learning to climb between pulls may actually be a benefit in the long term. Granted he was good at dynos, but when needs must...

I suggest letting your daughter crack on, she'll find her own way.

I'm not sure I would agree with that, there will be plenty of climbs harder than F6a which can be completed by someone short.

I think you should make the decision based on if they enjoy the climbing or not, the grades will take care of themselves over time.

Best way to develop a young climber is whatever suits you.  If your daughter doesn't fancy level 4 then don't bother.  If she does fancy it crack on.  My girl got bored of NIBAS by level 1.

Height really isn't the restriction until well into 7's.  Technique and training is.  It's your choice if it's worth it

Ahem, climbing isn’t really a sport. I don’t know what those acronyms mean but I don’t like them anyway.

If your daughter wants to climb then take her climbing.

I’ve seen these ‘training sessions’ at my bouldering wall and look at them askance, lots of whoop whoop, most of the kids are brilliant natural climbers anyway. Most kids are.

Why put them into a ‘program’? 

Hmm?  Need to be careful here.

For me outdoor climbing on mountains is the ultimate activity, but I was always nervous that if I pushed my children too hard it could backfire. So we exposed them to every activity we could think of though friends, school groups, clubs.....  One became an really good surfer/snow boarder.  One excelled in martial arts. And the third child became a much better all round climber than me. 

Go gently, check that she actually really wants to progress. Nine is really young to start focusing on anything. Give her as many options as you can. She will find her own way.

By the way we all still climb together - two because it's just fun and one because it's the ultimate activity!

My nephew's 8, he's been bouldering, top roping and on auto belays. He prefers auto belays because he's more in control, and likes to make up his own routes instead of following the colours despite me telling him what he 'should' be doing. I saw similar aged kid on a top rope crying and saying he wanted to go down but his adult belayer told him he had to go on, he could do it etc - which was fairly uncomfortable to watch. So now I think kids that age should just have fun and do what they want.

NICAS 4 is where they learn how to lead, so the focus is not going to be on improving their grade that much.  I would let her continue on for now.

Depending off course if she wants to, if she wants to improve or spend more  time with you, you could always take here out on bouldering sessions as well.

Ask her, what she wants to do.

Hi

We have a similar situation, my son is 10  and has been climbing for several years, both at climbing walls and outdoor.

He is currently working his way through nicas and is on level 4, but I'm expecting him to take a very long time to complete it, like your daughter he is very small for his age and regardless of technique there are some climbs he just physically can't do.

He also finds lead climbing a lot scarier and climbs well within himself, to make sure he doesn't fall off. Often he and a partner will climb the easier routes and just enjoy what they are doing. He can lead climb and lead belay competently and belays both me and his dad with an ohm indoors. 

The reason he has remained in a club is he likes climbing with kids his own age rather than just us. It can also act as an encouragement when he sees what the other kids can do.  But, he has absolutely no interest in competition climbing and prefers to be outdoors.

I'm sure bouldering would be helpful for developing her skill, if it's what she wants to do. I think it can help with lead climbing to get them used to not having a top rope.  We just check at regular intervals what our son wants to do and go with that. 

Lou

Thanks to you and everyone who has replied, lots of wisdom in the posts here!

I'm so used to traditional kids activities where learning is more structured - swimming lessons for example. Climbing is a different kettle of fish, but at the early stages NICAS has helped because with non-climbing parents we (felt we) needed someone to teach her how to be safe and get her started, plus the companionship of other people to climb with.

I think it boils down to something pretty simple though - she can progress fine without forml tuition and we just want her to continue to enjoy herself. Also I want to continue to enjoy the nice coffee they serve at the climbing centre cafe....

That's an idea. Not sure how we could do that but I'll think about it for the spring/summer. I'm a non-climber so I'm instantly drawn to nice organised indoor centres where walls are colour coded and have lovely soft bouncy floors, and where there are coffee shops with free wifi. When someone says "outdoor climbing" my brain instantly goes to a mental image of a sinewy fella clinging on implausibly about hundred feet up a lonely rock-face with just a few birds of prey for company.

Yep point taken, great advice here. Short is not important! I had better stop saying this as it gives away my complete lack of understanding about the sport. Oh hang on now there's someone saying it's not a sport either... what?! So confused.

Qwerty2019, I'm not sure you will read my reply but if you do... do you reckon technique will just naturally improve with practice and hanging about watching other people bouldering, or is there more to it than that?

We are really lucky to live close to a centre where I can take her bouldering pretty often just for short periods of time. I really just want her to continue to enjoy it and get a  buzz out of challenging herself. I think we will keep it casual and see if it becomes a thing she wants to keep on doing down the road.

Maybe ask at the wall if they know of local organisations who run taster sessions outdoors and then take it from there. 

Where we are, some of the local councils have sign up sessions available for kids in all sorts of outdoor pursuits in the school holidays.

Maybe start learning yourself and see if you get the bug too!

my daughter is also 9 and climbs F6a. We go twice a week, once outside on weekends on the grit if it’s warm enough  

ive just bought her some Rock Rings for her bedroom and she’s pretty happy about that. 

We’ve not done any NICAS as she’s quite shy and can be funny about competitions and at the moment doesn’t like clubs.  

Of course its a sport - in the same way running is a sport..........do you enter the British Championships, try for a parkrun pb, or just jog because it makes you feel better............its whatever you, or your daughter, make it.

Your reply to qwerty is not a bad way to go; keep it casual - if she wants to do it on a more than casual basis, she'll let you know soon enough! The outdoorsy bit is good as well; try the bmc for advice; they run outdoor courses, but from memory aimed at young teens rather than 9/10, but check anyway.

I have messaged you

but in short, no technique won’t just improve with hanging around at the bouldering centre.  Strength and movement probably will, but not technique.  Bouldering centre is in my eyes the best environment for teaching techniques but just ambling along won’t always create good techniques by chance.  I have put some suggestions in the email but I watch climbers with bad technique every other day and most of them would come on here and ask how to do a training plan or finger boarding to improve while still doing the same poor techniques week in week out.  Hope the email helps

You have to be a bit careful with the "just climb" approach as practicing the wrong technique drills that into your memory and some aspects of climbing technique are not entirely obvious. The book Rock climbing technique by John Kettle is essentially a massive collection of technique drills to work through which could be a good option. Also Neil Gresham's climbing masterclass (DVD) is another good one to work through.

Foot first - teaches them to move around the problem and adjust themselves.  Also great for flexibility

slilent climbing - real good fun if dad closes his eyes and catches the noisy climber

blind climbing - set of goggles with gaffe tape blocking.  Ask her to read the (basic) climb then get her to try to repeat.  Great laugh but you possibly want to be on ropes for this one.  Kids have brilliant memories and getting them to read routes as fun games is a great way to add a tool to the box.

no adjusting feet - you place it you can’t move it.  Teaches them to concentrate on feet placement.  They stop using big patches of holds and use edges and toes.

one handed climbing - not sure what this teaches but sometimes it’s funny

hopping - hop on left leg forward in line x 10 then back x 10.  Sideways x 10 other way x 10.  Repeat on other leg.  How many kids love hopping.  Little do they realise how much it helps their legs.  Ashima shiriashi does this drill.

Them footwork ladders on the floor.  Some great fun drills with them helping both cardio and coordination.

You can concentrate on having fun together playing games which promote good technique without being a ‘lesson’ and top up with proper teaching by an instructor.  

Lyn Hill is 5'2"...

She's pretty good at climbing

Just don't overdo it. Friends of my parents brought their two daughters on every camping and climbing trip to Scotland when I was a kid and when the two girs reached their teens they stopped climbing. They probably did it to hack their pushy parents off, same as I started refusing to go to church to hack my very religious parents off.

What makes you think I don’t agree?

Nothing.  It was a joke, hence the winy face at the end of it!

*winky, that was meant to say winky.

That was not a sentence I envisioned myself writing today when I woke up this morning.

What's a winky between friends