UKC

After spending my teenage years squeezing into tight rugby boots, and my twenties squeezing into tight climbing boots, my feet are a mess. I've got bunions on both big toes, and tailors bunions developing on the outer foot. Throw in the fact that i have "duck feet" that are really narrow at the heel and wide across the toes anyway, and it's a recipe for pain at this time of year when the Big Boots come out the cupboard for winter climbing and walking. I have tried several brands over the years (Salomon SMG9's, Kayland Multitraction, something else I can't even remember...) and seem to have settled on Scarpas as the best "compromise" boot that isn't overly tight on the toes, and isn't voluminous around the heel.

Anyone else suffer from this, and any top tips or things you've done to try to break your feet in gently? I'm off for a walk to the shops in my Phantoms to give them a small taste of what's to come over the next few months...

yes, FTFY

Save your feet and give up winter climbing and walking in boots that are anatomically incorrect and take up another sport instead.

I have a bunion on my left foot and, like you, am also narrow at the heel.

My wife is a podiatrist, so I get plenty of free advice, and that is where I would start - go and get professional advice about what can be done. You may be able to find suitable boots off the shelf that can be modified using different orthoses and/or volume adjusters, or you might even have to bite the bullet and go down the bespoke boots route. I believe that Altberg can do made to measure from their base in N Yorkshire.

May not be of interest, but for running I now use Altra (foot shaped) running shoes - what a difference!

N.

Have you tried Mammut boots? Sounds like we have similar feet and I've found them to be the best of the bunch, wider at the toe than most other brands but they have a good heel lock system. Currently using Magic Guide High as my winter boot. I was on Scarpas before too.

Hanwag bunion boots.

I find Scarpas too narrow in the forefoot relative to my heel and have settled on La Sportiva as the best option for me as they seem to be snugger on the heel for the same forefoot width, relative to Scarpa. I believe that Zamberlan also have a similar fit but then they're pretty difficult to get over here so may be a bit too much risk to try out on a whim.

Unfortunately, there is no way to 'break your feet in gently'.  And if you're wearing a stiff B3 boot like Scarpa Phantom you will very quickly only make your bunions much, much worse!  Eventually this can result in surgery being the only option if you don't take great care to relieve the pressure on your feet by only wearing boots & shoes that fit properly.

Go and see John at 'Whalley Warm & Dry' https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/  they were able to stretch all my Scarpa boots to accommodate a bunion on my left foot using an Italian press.  This included Scarpa Phantom Techs (that other 'experts' to told me couldn't possibly be stretched).

I cannot recommend them highly enough - they have a huge amount of knowledge and expertise with helping people deal with bunions.  I have to travel a long way to see them, but I think that's a small price to pay!

There have been several similar threads on UKC. BMC site: thebmc.co.uk/climbing-shoes-is-pain-insane.

 BMC says: "High ability climbers are generally more affected by the following reported conditions: Toe deformity – claw or hammer toes, Splinter haemorrhage under nails (collection of blood under toe nails), Bruised toes, Cuts, Corns, Mycosis (fungal infections), Nerve compression syndromes, Hallux valgus (big toe angled towards other toes), Disorders of the traversal arch structure in foot, but normal longitudinal arch, and Bunions."

I've suffered from all the above except probably nerve compression and I don't even have the compensation of being in any way a "high ability climber".

Get the right boots and shoes and probably take advice on insoles too. Sometimes brands have different lasts for different models.  Incidentally I recently had a three part op to correct claw toe, Hallux valgus and bunion on my bigger foot which has been a big improvement. If you get such an op consider getting both feet done together to avoid two periods of post-op inactivity. 

My feet are similarly crippled, 40 years of judo tends to do that to you. I assume that the main pain is in the arthritic basal joint of the big toe. If so, my top tip is to use B3, crampon compatible stiff boots even for normal walking or hiking, and climbing shoes with a stiff carbon insole.

CB

How has Judo crippled your feet?

Caught toes in the gaps between mats, damaging the capsules, about a thousand times.

More importantly, general overload from pivoting on the front of the foot and pushing up from the toe balls against resistance, which happens every time when trying to throw an opponent.

More spectacularly, collapse of my left foot arch from a guy falling onto the back of the calf, putting so much pressure on the foot that a tendon ripped off the bone.

Look at anyone aged 50ish who has done competitive judo for a few decades, and the feet and fingers will not really be in mint condition any more.

CB

You have my sympathy.  I have wide toes and very prominent big toes and have always suffered from painful forefeet by the end of long winter mountain days. However, the Joe Brown mountaineering emporium in Capel Curig (other retailers are available) recently pointed me in the direction of the Scarpa Ribelle (B2) and after much pondering, research and walking about in the shop, I opted for the new Ribelle HD - the leather version. Super comfy straight out of the box - have had several full mountain days and my toes have never had such freedom! 

I've had pretty terrible bunions for the last 9-10 years but I find that Scarpa boots (at least the Mont Blanc Pro and Rebel Lites) fit my feet quite well at the widest part of my foot without having to modify the boots in any way. Having said that I usually have to buy them a size bigger than what I need for my actual foot length and use custom-made footbeds which help offload the pressure on the big toe joint. 

I also use Boots toe spreaders religiously as they seem to straighten up the big toe a bit which also seems to help take off some of the pressure at the bunion.

Cheers for the replies and info folks, appointment with podiatrist after New Year on the cards, and a list created of boots to try on when i get the chance! 

It's not a quick fix, but I wish I had before and after pictures from taking up barefoot running for a few years in my late 30s/early forties.

They're not perfect now, but huge improvement in bunions and claw toes. Also brought my duck feet in a fair bit (along with postural and range of movement work around the hips)

I don't think high ability climber is the right criteria.... anyone who has spent significant time in tight climbing shoes with narrow toe boxes. 

I went from ice to climbing and now, like you, at nearly 50 I've ticked off most of those problems. Changes in footwear, specialist inner soles and a multitude of exercise have helped, but not 100%. I just have to accept they'll probably never be perfect. 

Op. See a foot specialist, maybe search around a bit for one in an outdoory area as there is a chance they'll have an even greater understanding of your problem. That and try a lot of boots on in a shop, it's a pain in both senses, but the only way. As long as the shop assistant is reassured of an eventual sale I'm sure they'd understand. 

Have you tried Salewa Boots? I have a pair of Vultur Vertical Evo in a foul green colour. Very wide at toes. Not sure you can get them now.

i am similarly afflicted (Tailors Bunions) and find I get pain as my outer foot edge rolls off the insole. Solved this with extra wide Super feet green, which when trimmed, fit the full width of the boot and my foot.