UKC

I'm buying my own winter rack, and was wondering if there was any consensus on the type of ice screw (or mix of?) to buy before I spend the not insignificant £££ .

Plan is to use them primarily in Scotland and secondarily the alps. Reading the UKC review from 6 years ago, the Aluminium Petzl Laser Speed light seems to be the recommendation; does that still stand? I'm not able to get out very often, so longevity/durability is unlikely to be an issue.

I've mostly used BD Express when I've borrowed other people's racks, but see that most of the newer models are significantly lighter.

e.g Dick's Climbing selection:

- Blue Ice - Aero Lite Ice Screw
- Black Diamond - Express Ice Screw
- Petzl - Laser Speed (2020)
- Petzl - Laser Speed Light
- Black Diamond - Ultralight Ice Screw

Any suggestions appreciated!

Petzl - I just like the handle the best. In the speed, the hanger is aluminium which sheds some weight, and they start (in dense ice) IMO the best out of the main brands. Grivel 360's are also worth considering as due to the small head size you can wind them into much smaller nooks allowing you to access much deeper, buried and more stable ice. But they are a pain to rack so only a couple...

I would go for petzl laser speeds too - just the nicest to use. In terms of normal vs light, I think I would definitely go with light for my longest screws (most weight to be saved and I’d only generally be using a 21 for belays on thick ice or for threads), but I’d probably go with standards at short lengths where the price/weight saving dynamic is a bit less clear cut and where I’ll be bottoming out more frequently. For a rack for both continental ice and Scotland you’ll want the full range of sizes (red 10 - green 21), but skewed significantly to the 2 middle sizes (13/17).

I’d go for black diamond express, I find they bight very well and are one of the easiest ice screws to get started (which lets face it is the hard bit) as there is less metal work in the way. Once started the handle is perfectly adequate for quick screwing in. They are also very robust, id be weary of getting those petzl lights for uk use as they’ll probably get bashed about a bit on rocks etc.

You must have pretty strong hands.

Not particularly. The ukc review concurs, I think its related to a different tooth profile with longer pointier teeth on BD. Just keep them sharp and never sharpen them in a machine as they tend to have the grivel profile. “The Express ice screws bit exceptionally well in to the ice, meaning that they were amongst the fastest and easiest to place in the whole test. Once they have bitten, they were also very easy to wind in, with the handle and shape working exceptionally well.”

he's trying to be funny / pedantic on the spelling of bite/bight

Dare I mention buying one second hand warthog (eBay) for UK use? Not sure if that's fashionable these days

yep still good for certain routes (turfy) ... i've got a few but selling one as you dont need many !

Bad in wet ice, like petzl screws, handles fall off. Very very nice screw tho

Still the benchmark workhorse ice screw IMO, but heavy. Started my ice climbing career placing these, never felt let down by them. Always started well in a range of ice types and went in fast. Rack really neatly and come in a huge range of sizes.

Not tried these three teeth design but may be some improvement on bite.

These replaced my BD's and have been very impressed, they do struggle with wet ice but never really had a problem.  Been on my rack for 5 years and are yet to need sharpening. I'm also not cautious with them at all and they haven't been dinged up or damaged during packing or transport. As Mike says they are not pretty on the harness and stick out all over the place. Tho not a major issue.

Seen to many pictures with the tip broken off to really consider these. But from what I've heard they are actually pretty good. The guy from BD who designed these now works on the blue ice screws.

When you say alps, are you considering pure water ice (I.e. getting a full rack of screws for this purpose) or alpine ice/mixed?

The longest screws are definitely worth getting in aluminium, but getting a selection of steel and aluminium will get you a long way on different ice types and give you some durability as tj suggests. Personally a selection of the new Laser speeds and speed lights will be my next water ice rack. Adding steel screws, mainly cause I'm tired of stuffing ice screws inside my jacket to melt them out.

In addition to warthogs, don't forget bulldogs or terriers.

Thanks for all the suggestions - much appreciated!

@GarethSL Yep, primarily alpine ice/mixed rather than WI. Good point; I was lucky enough to inherit some terriers.

Buy your first few second hand. You'll probably bottom them out on rock and those petzls don't have much Steel tip to sharpen. I certainly took more than that off my first few screws.

The threads on some of my SS screws are certainly showing some wear, dread to think what state they'd be in if they were aluminum. 

As a few others have said already, the BD express screws are great. They're a simple robust design that just works. I would start with 2 blue and 2 gold ones and go from there unless you're looking to get a full set, in which case I would go green, 3 silver, 3 blue and a gold.

I own both Express screws (albeit old ones) and Petzl Speed screws and I can honestly say your impression that the BD's start more easily is not the one I've had on dense water ice. I'd had zero problems with sharpness or even needing to file them down so far. The Express is definitely a good screw but I find the handles are not as good for the simple reason that they are longer and have less angulation on the hanger - you run into ice knobbles far more with the express IMO. I guess everybody has their preferences and I don't think you can go far wrong with either. Personally I don't use the aluminium ones because I've heard that the thermal coefficient can lead to your screws getting frozen in when it's really cold and where I normally climb its -5 to -15 air temp.

could always wait for the Grivel helium.

That’s my experience too. If I were building a rack from new I’d get petzl screws. So much so that a popular option for the screw sharpening man in Quebec is to put the petzl teeth cut on your BD screws with his CNC machine. 

Whatever you buy, get a set of needle files and learn how to sharpen them! It only takes a small burr being pushed into the ice rather than cutting it to make them really hard to start and then fracture the ice around the hole your screwing into.