UKC

I've been asked to pace leg 2 or leg 3. I've done 1 and 2 (separately) before but I'm wondering about pace and fitness (and whether I need a training plan just to support!)

If you've supported a leg or two (or done a round, obviously) carrying water, kit and food, how fit were you? What prep did you do?

thanks  

Can't offer much advice other than leg 3 is pretty nails compared with legs 1 & 2, at least imo. You probably know that anyway. Good luck.

All depends who’s asking you to support and how fit you are!

If it’s Kilian, I’d be concerned. If it’s someone on a 23hr schedule, it’s more likely to be lots of walking and steady away running. Indeed, if you know you’ve got a good steady 5 hrs of fell in your legs, you’ll be fine.

If you’re apprehensive, go for 2, rather than 3, obviously.

It’s good you’re asking though, as it’s both a privilege and massive responsibility!

I've helped out on 1, 2 and 5. I didn't enjoy 1 as I was at the limits of my fitness (mid pack fell races) and actually got dropped a little on the run in. My guy had asked for a certain  pace and that was fine, he got carried away trying to 'bank' time and that was a stretch for me. I can highly recommend supporting 5 (same guy on successful 22h round) - clockwise they should be fairly broken by then and you can jog in and take the glory. Preparation wise, I just got lots of ascent in mostly locally, rather than on the route. Navigation on those legs at least isn't too desperate.

Good you're aware of the ask. Will there be other support or will there be another person with you? Will you be nav or shoving food down their throat? Don't forget to feed/water/look after yourself. What's their level of fitness, and yours? How did the legs you've done felt, and how did they match against 4-6h at the required pace?

Are you used to running with a pack, and getting kit out of it on the move and relatively quickly? Can you look after yourself and the VIP?

Most importantly - do you have good chat?

Nic has lots of good questions, he hasn’t answered any of your questions though.

Yes, I’ve done lots of support. I at times have been very fit and happy to take on the nav and carrying for fast mid winter rounds as the only support on leg 3. Then I once ended up woefully underprepared supporting John Kelly on his Grand Round (I was upfront that I probably wasn’t fit enough, but I was his only option), I just about survived.

How much you need to be prepared depends on the degree of responsibility you are taking on. But this is important, you need to be able to look after yourself. If you can’t hold the pace, you need to make that call early enough to give your kit to someone else and have the fell craft to navigate off safely and get yourself back to a car. If you don’t do this you put the round at risk. 
 

How well do you know the contender? Ultimately it should be their choice if they want you along, so you just need to be honest about your fitness.

Yes, 1/2/3 - you need to be at least as fit as the person who you're running FOR - remember, you'll have more kit as one assumes you'll help with the muleing. Good thing is, you only have to run that leg so you can go a bit deeper than normal

Leg 2 is great if you're confident naving in the dark and it's got some great running on it. Be worth figuring out which way they want to come down off Dollywaggon before you start the round, same as the route up on Clough Head (the correct answer is a directissima of course) 

As Nic said, you need to know what your role is - or are you all the roles if you're the only pacer? Be prepared to sort your own shit out. If you're in a group and you're the slowest, drop out, get yourself off the hill. It's not your round - its theirs. If it all goes to crap, you need to not be the weak link.

However, when it all comes together, and you get someone round in the time they want, or just that little bit quicker but without wasting them.... it's a great feeling. 

Well, compost, this is a very timely thread indeed. I have not supported on a BGR but failed on a clockwise attempt (at Esk Pike) on a sweltering day, completely cooked, and succeeded a year later anticlockwise in mixed but cooler conditions with 20 minutes to spare. Not much running after the initial dash on the roads but you do have to keep moving. Anyway, 33 years later I am intending to attempt the Joss Naylor Lakeland Challenge, somewhere in the interval 19th - 30th May. Doing a leg or two of this would be perfect training on the terrain but at a much slower pace (20+ hours for 48 miles, 17,000 ft). How about it? Anybody else able to offer assistance? Driving and transport? Not keen on spending all day in cloud and rain so the date is not fixed yet, it could be over the BH weekend if necessary. My son and I have recced all the summits, not necessarily in the right direction, and he will do at least one leg, at night, with me but Joss has made it very difficult not to have a team behind an attempt...

All offers gratefully received!

Pete

Wow - some great responses! Thanks very much all

"leg 3 is pretty nails compared with legs 1 & 2" - that's what's worrying me! I finished Leg 2 feeling fine, but struggled a bit on Seat Sandal. We did have to slog through pretty deep snow though, so am hoping that took some of my energy!

The schedule and other supporters are still unknowns - I need to find out! I expect it'll be aiming to complete (rather than go for records) and my role is pacer and mule so I'll be carrying a load. The attempt is June so could be warm and I need a recce to find the water sources.

I'm getting some local hill training in, and will be training the chat :-D 

Good luck with the attempt - that sounds great! I'm too far from the Lakes to offer guaranteed support across that range of dates but, when your plans firm up, stick a date in here and I'll see if I can make it! thanks!

Supported quite a few BGRs on various legs - Going CW, I've supported 1&2 together, 3 and 4 separately. And completed my own round going CW. Leg 3 is the big one, obviously, but so much of it is in your head. On my own round I felt broken after a rubbish night of poor weather and poor navigation from Blencathra through to Dunmail. I was absoloutely spent by the time I got to Dunmail, but somehow just couldn't chuck the towel in. Although I felt sick for most of the rest of the round, the boost to morale from having a great support runner for legs 3 and 4, better weather and daylight was immense. My own learning from this is that its a total head game - one minute you can feel wrecked and the next much much better. Good, light hearted chat from the support runner is, as Nic said, really, really helpful.    

This raises another question - how assertive are supporters with shoving food down contenders' throats?! Is it a case of reminding them every half hour or so that they need to be eating so they don't carry the mental load of remembering? 

Very, don't give them the option of saying no. Just hand it to them, unwrapped and ready to go, and tell them to get it down them. If they really can't eat it they won't and if they aren't sure if they need it or not then they do!

As you've done leg 2 I'd say that's your default as you know it and should be able to judge your own fitness for that. If your role is navigation then its important you know the route well. 

I've been supported by inadequate support and had to drop them about 1/3 of the way on leg 3.

Not wanting to sound harsh, but if my supporters don't know what they're getting in to, they're probably a bigger risk to success.

Assume no water on leg 2, 3 is better with water in Stake Gill and springs just after the branch off to Great End.

Yes, I just did my normal running and then turned up at the correct weekend and went for a run. To give you an idea of what the going is like, I supported on a 19 hour BG and we walked all the hills at a fairly gentle pace, ran the flats and descents. Hardest part is knowing when to offer up food and water and not to go wild with the pace. As a reference I can turn a 5k on the flat in 20 mins and we did leg 5 in 02:04:08, which as I said above we walked all the hills at a gentle pace.

If you've got the choice I would go with leg 2 to be frank, leg 3 looks to be a total brute where as leg 2 is okay once you get high, you could also work with another pacer/supporter and split the peaks out if you're struggling, ie only 1 of you goes up seat sandal or Fairfield at the end. 

Main thing really is to enjoy the time in the hills and take it all in as being involved in a successful BG is a special thing indeed.

Edit* also download the GPX file from Beth Pascall's round as it does appear to have all the best lines so you can use that for nav if you need to

On that note if anyone does need some support I am more than happy to help out!

It doesn't sound harsh - it's common sense. That's why I'm asking here and reccying - everyone starts somewhere, right?! 

Agreed!

Do all the pacers stay on to see the finish?

In my experience yes they do, everyone will meet up in Keswick to see them come in, some of the earlier legs even come out on leg 5 for the party leg if all is going well! 

Three 1hr runs in the fells a week was enough to do a reasonable job of supporting my mate on leg 2. I've got a running training history and he wasn't aiming for a super fast round though. 

Good luck with that Pete. Unfortunately the only day in May I can help is bank holiday Monday 29th, but if you do end up choosing that day I'm quite happy to drive up/around/back, etc.

Southbound M6 will be a no-no until quite late regardless.

Now that could be potentially very helpful, thanks for offering. I'm not sure how easy it is to drive around the Lakes during a Bank Holiday, never mind the M6, but if you are happy to consider it then we would be delighted to have you as chauffeur/hill company as a fallback if other arrangements haven't worked by then!

Cheers, will keep in touch,

Pete

To close this off, he was successful on his round a couple of weeks ago. I navved/ paced leg 3 and it was utterly brilliant. For prep I carried on running locally and did reccies on 2, 3 and 4.

Two of us supported leg 3, reminded him to eat and drink and basically tried to take any mental effort away from him so he could concentrate on following my heels.

Physically it was fine, apart from the doms after the Scafell descent :-D Now thinking about an attempt of my own...!

Thanks everyone for the advice and tips - really useful!

Well Done!

Which day was it? I had a go at the Joss, roadside supported only, on the BH Monday with absolutely perfect conditions. Blew up badly after Bowfell, struggled up Esk Pike and missed out Great End altogether. Slunk back to Wasdale with dutiful son who was going to accompany me on leg 4. Just like 1989 BG attempt, but a bit cooler. Times were ok but no energy left for going uphill. Determined not to try again but keep thinking about it...

Great effort Pete!