UKC

Am I right in thinking that shoes with leather uppers will stretch whereas those with microfibre won't?

My street shoe size is 8.5 but I've been wearing a Scarpa 9.5 which, though very comfy, doesn't provide amazing support when pushing down on small holds. The rubber is super soft so they are great for smearing but it also compounds the lack of support at the toes and lateral motion along the foot.

Before I settled on 9.5 I tried the same model in my street size 8.5 but the pain was unbearable- they made my big toe look like it had a good clean slice taken off the end by how much they had been pinched and took a good few minutes to look rounded again.

The next size up from 8.5 was the 9.5 (or 9 & 1/3 by some descriptions). So, could I have kept with the 8.5 and expected them to eventually stretch out enough?

Microfibre uppers- has anyone experienced a pair that stretched sufficiently to ease massive pain?

Thank you for any insights or advice. 

In reply to DizzyVizion:

In my experience, synthetic shoes give a little but not as much as leather - but it depends.  Modern shoes, with lots of rubber all over the upper, means they‘ll give less compares to a more traditional shoe with less rubber for toe hooking.

I’d also add, if you’ve gone from shoes with good edging capability to modern, soft, bouldering style shoes, then you’ll probably struggle with weak big toes.  Depending on the sizing, the tension between the heel and toe can help offset that somewhat.

In reply to afx22:

That's a really good point, thank you. Maybe my toes will improve/get stronger now by necessity.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

It may be a good idea to try various toe box shapes, as this makes a lot of difference to big toe position. It would probably also be a good idea to avoid shoes with rubber on the tops, as all toe boxes will stretch/conform to some extent, but less so with significant rubber patches.

Most new pairs of climbing shoes need a wear in period, whatever the material, and can go from unbearable to comfy in a few sessions... so sizing is a bit of a tricky thing to judge.

IMO, Scarpa should be sized roughly 1 full size down, e.g. UK 10 to 9, 9 to 8. Sometimes this downsizing gets less dramatic as the shoe gets smaller. Sizing up sounds like you're not getting the most out of the shoe. If they are too big, edging will be poor.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Is your big toe on the long side? Mine's shorter than my next toe and I can go below street shoe size in a lot of Scarpa without any discomfort.

In reply to C Witter:

Thank you. The curve at the front matches my toes really well, but it does feel a bit loose across the top. You're right about the toe rubber. There's a small patch glued onto these shoes making them feel a bit rigid at that particular area.

I do have another shoe by the same brand- a size 8.5, and they are the exact same length as these 9.5's. I've carefully lined the soles up and pressed them together and they are the exact same length. Weird.  

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

My big toe is longest with the next one along being slightly shorter. They reduce in size making a curve down to the last little piggie; matching the shape at the front of these shoes.

I honestly couldn't wear the street shoe size 8.5 of this model. But I could in another model by the same guys- a size 8.5 which I've put side by side with the 9.5 and the length of the sole is the exact same. 

In reply to DizzyVizion: Which model because the position of the pointy bit of the shoe relative to the toe changes a bit.  Also , some shoes are designed for a 'flat toe', others for it to be knuckled - the latter can be a bit grim and boxy.

.FWIW I like the Instinct slipper as the rubber round the toe box is so soft it will stretch to fit quite a bit, and so is pretty comfortable (for me at least) 

Shoe sizing between brands is totally random.  I size down in Scarpa by a full euro size as well (42 to 41 or even 40,5)

In reply to DizzyVizion:

Generally when trying on Scarpa shoes my starting point would be a full UK size down, sometimes having to go up half a size.

Just thought, you are not confusing US sizing on one of the pairs?

In reply to wbo2:

The models are Scarpa Quantix SF size 9.5 and a pair of old Scarpa Thunder size 8.5. Though the same length, the Quantix SF has a bit more room above the toes. 

They do look really nice. Maybe a bit more technical than I need though (I'm mostly doing indoor 6c's).

For me this shoe sizing stuff feels like an inexact science most of the time. My feet are on the wide'ish side, which is just another spanner in the works.

In reply to PaulW:

😄 I wish it was that simple. No, unfortunately they are both UK sizes - the label/stickers inside are still legible.

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I've had canvas ones, leather ones and fabric ones over the years. It's pretty easy to predict the stretch.

If you need the to stretch a little... they won't. If you don't want them to stretch.. they will.

Hope this this experience is useful to you. You're welcome...

In reply to DizzyVizion:

The UKC tester suggested street size for Quantix SF, so perhaps they size a bit smaller than some other shoes in the Scarpa range.

You might find something like the Unparallel UP a good pair of shoes: flat, supportive, fairly neutral fit. Maybe 0.5 or 1 size down. It's worth experimenting a bit, if you can afford the layout, to try to find a shoe you feel really fits you well. The first pair that fit you perfectly will feel like magic shoes for a while.

In reply to C Witter:

After reading and watching some reviews of this model the apparent concensus is to size up by at least half, and that the velcro straps are too long. I definitely concur with this.  

My brother with a street shoe 9.5 tried them on and they were too tight for him.

Those Unparallel shoes look really good, thank you. The next time I'm after a new pair of climbing shoes I'll find somewhere that stocks these and try them on. I'm a bit too reliant on Scarpa due to having wide'ish feet.

I picked up the Quantic yesterday size 9.5 and went straight to the indoor wall. The fit is the same as the Quantic SF, but the sole is stiffer and less sticky (XS Edge). I definitely felt less confident on smeary climbs. And on small edges although they supported my feet a bit more, I was still a bit nervous that my toes would just slip off (which did happen a couple of times). 

I assume they'll break-in and become a bit more forgiving, fingers crossed. 

After the new year I'll send the Quantix SF away to Llanberis for a resole. 

And after my concerns over dead space above the toes in the Quantix SF, I climbed with them yesterday in a pair of summer socks with extra toe and ankle support- you know, with chunkier material at those areas. And this worked very very well. My tip for the day!   

In reply to DizzyVizion:

I'd bear in mind shoes aren't made in UK sizes , they're made in Euro sizes, and the sizing sometimes works a bit better using that scale. They just guess a UK size.  Ans if they recommend a size up or down, well that's a Euro size (smaller difference than a UK size)

As well as the material the big difference between these and shoes from the good old days is that they have great big rubber rands now,.  In the past you needed to hammer the things on and stretch them out.  Now, if they stretch a bit , well the rubber rand just keeps it tight. And , with the microfibre shoes, you can wash them, and then you're back to square one fitwise.

I'd just go try shoes on till you find something that works. For me , that's Scarpa as well.  UP shoes are too painful to wear, even if I upsize, so that's a clear warning to go elsewhere.