UKC

I'm reaching out to those folks with knowledge or experience of the Jøkulen glacier above Hardangervidda.

I'll be heading over to do a 3 week solo expedition with my trusty pulk around Hardangervidda in early Feb, and I had hoped to cross the Jøkulen glacier on my way from Finse.  The logical route would be up the winter loop route on the NW flank (won't be marked that early in the year, but can go via GPS) and then down somewhere in a southerly direction to crack on across the plateau for a few weeks.

I managed to contact someone from the Finse hotel who advised not to go down the protruding southern flank because "conditions are quite unpredictable there" but they never followed up on what exactly they meant by that.  I could only assume the crevasse risk is higher there?  I doubt he was referring to the weather.  There is of course the continuation of the above mentioned loop that goes off NE but it's kinda in the wrong direction, so I am looking for alternatives.  Due east down Torsteinsfonna is one option, but more south would be even better.  I can't find anything online or in my GPS maps, but I am still awaiting for my paper maps to arrive.

Has anyone come off the glacier in roughly the southern direction (SE, SW etc) and could provide some feedback on route selection and any hazards encountered?  As I'll be solo, I'd like to avoid any areas with higher crevasse risk.  Thanks in advance ladies & gents.

In reply to crayefish:

Limited experience: About 15yrs ago I ascended and descended the marked route on the northerly slope  to the top on a pair of classic track x country skis , (the day after doing the Skarverennet sportive event), so not exactly the correct tools for the job.  I remember it being pretty steep on at least one slope , the descent involved a fairly amount of headplanting.   

A few years later I circumnavigated the Jokul over 3 days in early May, hut to hut.  My memories of the Southern flanks was that they looked quite imposing, and in at least one place they were actively purging so we had to take a detour. certainly steeper and more complex terrain than the Northern flanks.

Why do you doubt he was referring to the weather?  The southern flank will after all likely be more exposed to the prevailing West /SW winds.  And the weather on the HardangerVidda at that time of year has a habit of being somewhat nuclear.

Hope you  aware of the Norwegian penchant for the understated. Back in around 2007 there was a sad incident when 2 folk from my hometown in Scotland, father and son, froze to death on the 'Vidda.  I was up there the same weekend and experienced at first hand the brutal weather.  The Norwegian press interviewed some locals who had seen the father and son team and said they were totally overloaded and could never have made their objective hut carrying all that gear in that weather, but they had not intervened.  

When they say that conditions can be unpredictable, what they potentially really means, is " that would be downright dangerous, foolhardy etc. but its up to you"

Would another option, if the weather is good, be to leave the pulk at the bottom , nip up and back down the same route (fast) then carry on.  Although early Feb days will be short so perhaps time pressure.

Can you not go 6 to 8 weeks  later?  Beautiful place when the days are long and the sun it out. Deadly if it isn't.

In reply to crayefish:

By Hardangerjøkulen do you mean a N-S traverse of the ice cap (pedants corner: it's an ice cap, not a glacier; aside to this, jøkul roughly translates as "cold land" but doesn't really work properly in English, -breen is -glacier, and -fonna is allegory to ice cap in English) to just crossing one of the outlets? I'm not sure what you mean here really. If you're talking about getting off the ice cap via Austra or Vestra Leirebottsskåka, I would not recommend it - both are steep and crevassed, and perfect avalanche traps. And the terrain makes a lot of the other ways off quite tricky too (at least in the summer). I wouldn't recommend it.

Vis-a-vis maps, look on Norgeskart, if you aren't already aware of it - https://www.norgeskart.no/#!?project=norgeskart&layers=1002&zoom=11... - it's the same as your paper map, also has satellite imagery and is free. 

Edit for un-danishising the spelling

In reply to mchardski:

If Norwegians think you've overpacked I can only assume they had a shipping container in tow!

In reply to mchardski:

Thanks.  That's the sort of info I was looking for.

As strange as it sounds, I'm very much hoping for nuclear weather.  All practice for bigger things and I thrive when it's harsh.

I've purposely chosen mid Feb for it to be as nasty as possible, and I have no interest in going when huts are open and the crowds are out.  Sarek last Feb was great fun when the mercury almost nudged -40 for a week.  I'm going to Hardangervidda this time for more of the high-wind-plateau feel though.

In reply to ianstevens:

Cheers.  Looks like I'll have to go off the NE then... of the ice cap

I'll have Nordeca Turkart maps and use the excellent Talkytoaster GPS maps for both my devices, which are 100x better than Garmin BS maps.  Worth every penny.

In reply to ianstevens:

LOL.

When not using huts, I feel the danger is very much underpacking.  I'd never want to be out alone in that environment and wish I had brought that spare tent pole, stove, pump, binding or whatnot when one fails.  Couple of extra kgs in my pulk isn't going to bother me... a collapsed tent or failed stove becomes lethal very quickly!

In reply to crayefish:

You're asking for advice, but want the worst conditions possible. Sounds foolish for the sake of some blog, you are risking becoming a statistic. 

In reply to crayefish:

I went up and down this route in mid March this year. The top 150m is steepish, up a blunt spur which could easily be icy - I’d be impressed by anyone controlling a pulk down it! But if you’re going up and down the same way I guess there’s no need. 
The Jøkulhytte at the top of this pitch was the coldest building I’ve ever been in.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Thanks for your useless armchair comment.  I am asking for advice on routes.  Clearly I don't undertake trips to these places for the mild Scottish weather; I enjoy extreme cold and Arctic conditions.  Any adventure in extreme environments comes with high risk and that risk needs to be managed properly with training & equipment etc; that includes seeking local knowledge.  If these conditions seem foolish to you, then you have no obligation to go and enjoy them.

In reply to crayefish:

I'm ex military, sar, ml etc.. I've done lots of training in Norway in winter (and elsewhere), hut to hut touring, snow holing, or just improvised under spruces etc.. I've weathered most of what that region can throw at me. It's not a game and coming a cropper can be surprisingly easy and only needs a few miscalculations.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Who was suggesting it was a game?  I'm sure you worked very hard for your experience, but you're not the only one.

So do you actually have anything helpful to add on route selection off the ice cap, as per the original question?

In reply to crayefish:

Did you follow the link I sent? Norgeskart is just the digital version of Turkart (another language lesson: kart translates to map, so Turkart Map is a tautology ). I'd agree the Garmin maps aren't the best, but the newer ones are, IMO, equivalent to the TalkyToaster ones. Not sure how they play on anything but the newest round of devices mind.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Yeah I'd agree with this. There's a reason local don't go out at this time - at best its grim, at worst its incredibly dangerous.

In reply to crayefish:

Do you take two tents? I've never done so but as you say, a collapsed one could be quite the nightmare. 

It's a tricky thing when it comes to spares, considering most of your kit is essential. You don't see people take spare skis in case you snap one, but it could in theory happen. Or if the zip on your main jacket went, that would be a right hassle. Do you take two GPS? Two satellite beacons? 

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Yeah, its a delicate balance of weight vs. failure risk with what to take as spare when solo for sure, and something I'm tuning each trip.

I now double pole my tent for extra strength (and thus have spare poles), but snow hole with my bivi bag (used to keep bag dry inside the tent from frost) is always an emergency backup option.  Definitely two stoves and 3 pumps (plus full set of spare o rings) because water is life.  Only one sturdy shovel though.

Two GPS, if you include my Fenix as a backup to the gpsmap (routes on both), and 2 inreach, including same gpsmap.  No spare skis for my current needs, but spare bindings and pole/basket.  Leatherman, hypafix tape, thread, cord and mini straps etc can enact a fair number of repairs on clothing and equipment.

I used to take more spare clothes (e.g. fleece, insulation and merinos) but found it was just a lot of bulk and proper sweat management is way more important.  I've been badly caught out by collapsed down before, and so I'm now way more diligent with my use of vapour barriers and venting.  It's really only merino boxers and liner gloves/socks that I have multiple of now.

In reply to crayefish:

Talk to us about hypafix tape - what do you use it for and why?

In reply to crayefish:

Slightly off topic but as we are discussing the Ice Planet of Hoth, I'll sneak this in...

Does anyone know when the round trip from Finse around the glacier (?) gets marked, and how doable it is before the route is marked? We plan to do a day trip out of Finse in early March and then toddle back to Geilo.

Totally agree on Norwegians carrying stuff btw. Civilisation could crumble and the average skier could happily rebuild everything from the contents of their backpack.  

In reply to Badpanda:

It wasn’t marked on 13 March this year.  Ut.no says around 20/3 next year 

https://ut.no/rutebeskrivelse/135864/kart#10.5/60.572/7.4653

In reply to rsc:

Thank you! Rather embarrassingly hadn't noticed that function on ut.no. The good news is everything else will be twigged up. 

Does that mean that the glacier(?) was unmarked when you did it this year? 

In reply to Toerag:

I just use it as a back up to duct tape.  Duct tape is obviously great for general repairs and I wrap all metal items with it for cold protection and tape storage (poles, fuel bottles, thermos, shovel handle etc) but at some point it's cold enough that the glue it freezes and it stops being effective to reapply and not practical/pleasant to warm up.  While not nearly as flexible as duct tape, Hypafix tape stays sticky as the adhesive has no water apparently.  Only ever needed it to patch a hole in my tent-roll bag that poles poked through, but I keep a small roll nevertheless.

In reply to crayefish:

interesting, thanks . I don't like duck tape as the glue tends to get everywhere so am always interested in alternatives.

In reply to Badpanda:

I think it’s a new function to be fair! Very useful, I’ll be using it to plan my own trip for next March soon. 
Yes, the route was unmarked and visibility was intermittent- that’s why we opted to descend by the same route. The wind had polished out any visible tracks over the top of the icecap. 
It’s a fantastic trip though, especially if you get some sort of view from the top.

In reply to crayefish:

I was as polite as possible before but perhaps best to say things more bluntly, as others have. In case it saves your life.

The fact you even think it could be an idea to take  a very heavily laden pulk alone across hardangerjokul in extreme conditions, is definitive that you neither have any idea of what that would require nor the ability to read a map. 

Even if you had 4 sets of tent poles it won't save you in 180mph winds and windchill of - 80degc, where digging a snow hole will not be remotely possible due to the huge quantity of snow covering your ass every 20 seconds, where your 3rd set of goggles just got iced up, your paper maps disintegrated hours ago and the chance of seeing a digital screen that might still be workingis zero. Have fun camping 100 yards from Finse for 3 weeks.  

Time to be polite, time to be blunt. Just saying. 

In reply to mchardski:

Christ man,the guy´s got experience and knows what he wants; he´s looking for additional and specific information. The very fact that he´s doing that speaks for the fact that he´s going about it in the right way. If someone asks on here about RP nut placements on an E10 nobody says: ooh be careful, it could get dangerous, you´re gonna die. Why not just trust his ability and be as helpful as you can, if at all?

In reply to mchardski:

No offence kid, but you're clearly just trolling.  Take your bad day elsewhere.

The Alps, let alone any bigger ranges, would be entirely unvisited in winter if everyone heeded your verbal chutney.

Interestingly, the local guide eventually got back to me last night.  Didn't actually clarify his original statement, but nevertheless was still pretty encouraging on my plan, along with a couple of tips.  However, I am sure you know best... 

In reply to McHeath:

Go on his website and read his Sarek account, it didn't fill me with confidence of a person who can plan routes, choose good camping locations, plan the best ski route in given conditions. You may have viewed it differently. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

I hadn’t read that, but yeah, well - on the one hand you’re right, but on the other hand I’d presume he learnt a lot from that trip, and they do seem to have survived. I could write similar stuff about many incidents on my learning curve, and I do detect a slight effort to make the read as gripping as possible. Anyway, looking forward to reading the article about the planned trip

In reply to McHeath:

I'm just cautious, the uk equivalent would be asking for advice on camping on the cairngorm plateau in the worst conditions, only this place is more remote and colder, with additional hazards. There are good reasons the Norwegian hut system is so well developed, mark routes, huts stocked with fire wood and food, with a master key for access. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Long time since I've been on the Hardangervidda, last time I went was  January 1990. Yes the weather can be rough but it can be in most mountain areas. It could just as likely be good clear, windless and very cold ideal for touring. Thing is you never know until you get there. If it does all turn crap then there's loads of huts you can drop down to. 

In reply to rsc:

That's good to know, thanks. We'll see what conditions are like when we get there. 

Enjoy your trip!

In reply to crayefish: Oddly I see the Hardanger map on my dining table now amongst a bunch of ther stuff (desk as well), but folded so it shows only the interesting bits along the coast and Folgefonna.

It's very flat, but each to their own....

In reply to crayefish: Wrap your water bottle n tape. With a bit of warm water it gets sticky again. Be cautious around Finse, I’ve done a lot of pulk tours across Hardanger, particularly early in the season you’ll hit days when any kind of travel is impossible. Get local advice from DNT in Oslo or Bergen and as someone else wrote above, beware the Norwegian understatement. Someone on these pages advised me Hardanger is a ‘good place to die’ twenty years ago and although I’ve been back most winters since, it remains salient advice.

In reply to wbo2:

That's often the case with maps, I find...

b

In reply to norrisdan71:

Yeah, days stuck in the tent is always a risk.  Early in the route its less of an issue as can fall back on my shorter backup routes, but of course towards the end the contingency fuel and food supplies can become essential.

Nice tip with the water bottle.  I just use two thermos now, aside from my pee bottle, due to issues with nalgene icing (leaks and frozen lids) but I do keep two 300ml nalgenes for defrosting/drying gloves (was a tip from someone here), so could wrap those.

In reply to GracefulM1racle:

Cheers.  Yeah, the loop route looks to be the ticket, despite the additional km.  I'll do it either at the start of end of my route, depending on how conditions are at the time.

In reply to crayefish:

Not trawling, and from what I've seen of  what you have written, you are indeed very  (exceptionally) well prepared. I wholeheartedly wish you well and have massive respect for you for doing it so long as you understand the risks and terrain. I do have residual doubts that you understand the complexity of the terrain because of your question ( descending the n side of the Hardanger jokul with a heavy pulk - obvious from a map or even google earth that this is a non starter), but guess you have a backup plan., and at the end of the day that is not what you asked, and not my business.  after that incident in the late 00,s i mentioned, i took it upon myself to try not to not let that happen again. . so i wish you good luck and speed.  just remember they are 20m contour intervals  ( unlike me who got himself almost avalanched)

In reply to crayefish:

I lived 5 years in Norway and 5 yrs in the alps, and they are totally incomparable. 

In reply to mchardski:

I appreciate your message mchardski; thank you.  I'd asked about the south as I did spy a spur that looked to have similar gradients to the routes up the north so thought I'd ask.  As everyone agrees the south is to avoided, I shall of course heed such advice.  Whether I even head up the icecap will depend on the weather at the time, as with anything.  I've just come home to find my maps have arrived, so will start route planning over Xmas.

My apologies if I was arsey in my response earlier.  As you can imagine I get a fair bit of doom warning on such things which sometimes gets annoying, even if it comes out of care.  As McHeath pointed out, folk don't tend batter an eyelid if someone plans on doing E graded climb or whatnot.  We all have different appetites for risk in different areas... I'd be bricking it on anything more than Scottish III or HS personally and would consider any more too much of a risk for me!  🙈  But I do enjoy non-technical suffering and always like to push the boundaries and learn in that field.

Now I just need to find some time in amongst the training to actually get round to finishing up my articles from my most recent trip to Sarek this Feb (which went 100x better than the first one). 

In reply to crayefish:

Looking forward to reading up on your second Sarek trip. I was due to go to Hardangervidda in Feb this year but had to cancel due to a family members poor health. Feel quite deprived of that cold fresh air hitting my face, snow crunching under my skis, nobody around for miles... I'll be missing this winter season too, so make the most of it for me!

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Will do!  Shame I won't bump into you on the vidda this year.  Perhaps another time 

In reply to mchardski:

Apologies also from me for my little outburst further up the thread. No hard feelings I hope.