UKC

I'm curious if there is an appetite in the UK for a self-serve type of training space for climbers that would be open 24/7? Inside, for example, there might be a kilter board, splash wall, finger training boards and some dumbbells  - that kind of thing. 

In reply to CEP_100:

There are already a couple of examples of these set-ups; School Room in Sheffield and The Chapel in Macclesfield spring to mind.

In reply to Ally Smith:

The wall in Bamford too (although not sure its 24 hour)

In reply to CEP_100:

Is the chapel still open?

In reply to monkeychoss:

Yep still going strong! 

In reply to CEP_100:

Not sure it’s a great idea, given it’s not unusual to see lower limb injuries at bouldering walls. That could get spicy if the injured party is the only person in at 2am… Insurance could be tricky for this reason as well.

In reply to Misha:

Sounds easy to mitigate really. Have an emergency pull cord in each corner that can be reached from the ground.

I myself have thought recently about this style of facility, but probably run more as a syndicate of say 20 people. And have a big spray wall, moon board and circuit board with some gym weights and finger boards.

I really like the idea 

In reply to Misha:

And how is that different from breaking a leg at your home wall when you live alone? The idea that a business has responsibility in this situation is crazy (although appreciate this probably is the case under UK law)

In reply to CEP_100:

If you want to do some research this facility, bar free weights as I recall, is almost next door to the SAS royal in Oslo. 

In reply to CEP_100:

Definitely.

Quite seriously, if you live in Abergavenny and want to help setting something like that up here, please get in touch.

In reply to ledburyjosh:

What happens when the pull cord is pulled - do the ambulance service turn up and ram the front door?

In reply to ianstevens:

If I run a business I’d want to be insured, so it would be down to what the insurers would cover and how much that would cost. I also wouldn’t want to own a facility where someone might break a leg and end up lying helpless overnight till someone happens to turn up in the morning…

Anyway, I can’t see such a facility being a profit oriented business because the owner would have no control over who might turn up - nothing to stop a paying member inviting all their friends for free. It’s more likely to work as a club with a mix of initial and annual membership fees. I think that’s how the Macclesfield one works. Of course that could also be abused but that’s less likely with a not for profit club where everyone feels a common sense of ownership.

Another consideration is that all cities have at least one decent wall these days, typically open till 10pm and often from early morning as well. So I can’t see there would be much interest in such a facility, except in towns which don’t have a (decent) wall - but then there might not be enough local interest to make it viable. I’m sure it could work in some places but location will be everything. 

In reply to Misha:

Lots of (non climbing) gyms are open 24/7 on a 'self serve' basis outside of regular hours these days, so it's obviously not an insurmountable problem.

In reply to deepsoup:

Your average gym isn't normally risking a fall from height. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

That's addressed upthread, the point I was trying to make is just that it's no longer unusual for a gym to be open 24/7 with no staff on site.  With very little fanfare they've become completely mainstream, the Puregym chain alone has hundreds of them.

In reply to ExiledScot:

There are other risks in a regular gym though. I'm no expert, but off the top of my head: you could drop a weight on your foot, get stuck underneath a bar when bench pressing (if you don't have safeties set up), get violently spat off a treadmill if you're not paying attention. There must be loads of risks of relatively serious injury.

In reply to Misha:

My local bouldering walls are open to year members 24/7 (you get a key), and they don't throw anyone out when they close for the night, you just let yourself out and turn off the lights. So it's certainly possible.

In reply to CEP_100:

A few of these exist dotted around the country but they are private rather than commercially driven ventures, covering costs rather than returning a profit. This can lead to them being a bit cliquey and focussed on higher grades.

I know one local to me has suffered from misuse and I expect this happens to all periodically.

The walls are clearly successful/self supporting as they exist relatively long term.

I can see a market for more developing as current trends in walls tend towards the playground rather than training for climbing.

Interesting article below:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=384725724218516&id=10008043...

In reply to Misha:

That's excessive for an initial response. 

A more reasonable response is the owner/manager responds and asseses, there would be multiple options other than this.

My point being protocols can be put in place to deal with such (rare) occurrences, rather than just saying something bad can happen so it shouldnt/can't be a viable model of a training area.

In reply to CEP_100:

I've been contemplating recently if climbing has reached a point in the UK where we're going to see 'unstaffed open 24/7 for the dedicated' type facilities popping up.  There's been a degree of splintering off at one end of the climbing demographic spectrum with the likes of Rock Up centres and also commercial walls having/building fully dedicated and separate 'kiddy zones'.  Is there sufficient market in 2024 at the opposite end for commercial success? I've no idea but suspect maybe in the right locations?
I'd have thought there are quite a few upsides to the idea for both owners and users. eg. much smaller space required so relatively small lease(?), no staffing costs, only dealing with members and not Joe Public, potential to build an interesting community/scene, potential of 'nicer' locations that don't involve battling city traffic and depressing industrial estates.....  But then the significant downside may well be that it's not really viable anywhere and would only ever be a passion project/charity thing!

In reply to Ram MkiV:

It seems to have been viable in Sheffield since 1993!
Though that one definitely started as a 'passion project' and I suppose arguably still is.  (Not a charity thing though, I'm pretty sure it's at least self-sustaining.)

https://www.climbing.com/places/school-room-sheffields-training-facility

In reply to deepsoup:

Can't see it available now but remember a schoolroom membership looking like a total bargain in the past and presumably there aren't that many members so therefore not much turnover.....  I guess the counter-factual to consider is this:  If BM hadn't innovated the moon board (an impressive achievement in itself and still holding its own on the global scale) would the 'new' schoolroom exist in its current guise?  I suspect the school room is primarily there as a place to test, develop and market the moon board (as well as a great place to train) rather than a profit making business venture in its own right.  So 'probably not' might be the answer to previous question.  Self-sustaining though?  Probably?

In reply to ad111:

Interesting. Still don’t think it’s a great idea, having see a few accidents requiring an ambulance or otherwise going to hospitals over the years. I also think it would be rather impersonal.

In reply to ledburyjosh:

Perhaps, but that means someone effectively being on call. May be I’m overthinking this and being too risk averse but it doesn’t strike me as a great idea. Edit - I’m thinking more of a standard wall set up, with a variety of problems. A training facility is probably less likely to result in an acute injuries due to the nature of the activities and the experience level of the users. 

In reply to Misha:

Impersonal is kind of the idea, that sort of facility would be used for training, not for regular climbing. Last time I strictly followed a training plan that took over my entire climbing for three months, I did not really interact with anyone at the wall while I was doing it. If anything, whenever it was busy it became tricky to even do.

In reply to Misha: It's  basically a top end home facility , but not at home, and you have to pay for.  No more, no less dangerous than a system board in the garage

In reply to wbo2:

I understand that but the OP appears to be evaluating the potential for a commercial venture.

A private venture would be conducted privately, not on here.

In reply to Misha:

Nah, it's more personal. You're trusted to be responsible which makes it feel more of a community. Everyone has a phone, easy to call an ambulance if you happened to need one.

In reply to Ram MkiV:

I wonder how much of this end of the market is already ‘taken up’ by people having built home facilities? I know a lot of people outside cities who have their own boards now, and are loath to pay to climb on a board elsewhere. 
 

To agree with your later post, I’d be surprised if the School Room membership covers costs for rent, utilities etc. and it probably appears as a business line on the Moon accounts somewhere! 

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

There's  middle ground between 'commercial' and 'private', most obviously in this case a kind of a club structure.  There's a big difference between someone canvassing opinion and a venture being 'conducted' on here.

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

Err yes.  I think you misunderstand my answer

And this already exists, as a commercial venture.  

https://www.oslomikrobuldreri.no/

In reply to Arms Cliff:

There are certainly loads of home facilities from a Beastmaker over a doorway up to full training boards. The main problem is that most garages haven’t the headroom for a full Moonboard for example. It’s possible to leave out or down size the kick board and reduce the t-nut spacing, but even so it’s a major piece of real estate. The only time I could get one in was in my last house that had a two storey garage and I took the upstairs floor out! 

In reply to Misha:

The pull cord would be linked to a sound system which continuously plays Brown Girl in the Ring whilst the injured climber bravely crawls to their phone.

In reply to Misha:

This was a general musing as much as anything - I'm based not in the UK, in a European country with a much less strong litigation culture. We have a wall that's just recently opened up 24 hours to subscribers who have been members for 2+ years and are happy to accept the risks, which are explained, and the expectation that the wall isn't responsible for usual climbing-type injuries. 

Trust. I'd suspect the number of people wanting to use the wall outside of normal hours (e.g. 10-10) is very slim anyway.

Mainly in my experience it's people going at 6am to use the hangboard before work.

In reply to mattsparksy:

where can I sign up????

In reply to CEP_100:

Saw this on YouTube recently, it's an exact match.

https://www.boardworksclimbing.com

https://youtu.be/B2oNfvhDYTY?si=CmFG4Xcizb1Ngy2j

In reply to emitto:

looks absolutely awesome.... my local wall has a really good training section with 15degree, 30degree and 45 degree, campus and weights but it get rammed most evenings. Conversely the other wall in the city has split up the training facility in distant corners so it doesn't seem to get as much use. 

my free weights gym has a £9/mnth 24/7 unstaffed open access. I'd have thought that if they can overcome the insurance hurdles a facility of this type would be just fine too.