UKC

There's a few climbs near me that have an easily accessible top, where a top rope can be rigged and abbed down. The climbs are slabby and pretty easy to go hands free at times. 

When I'm sans partner, I'd quite like to ab down the route(s), try a move or two and move on. It would be very easy to pause and tie frequent back-up knots as well as ensuring the rope is pulled through the grigri.

Is this a terrible idea, and if so why?

This is called top rope soloing, and lots of us do it. A Grigri is not the best device for this though.

I suggest you search UKC for "top rope solo" and you'll find enough threads to keep you occupied for a few weeks 🙂 There are endless arguments over the pros and cons of the various devices. You should definitely do a bit of reading up, as there are many dangers in top rope soloing that you might not anticipate and be prepared for.

Isn't andy kirkpatrick writing a book about this?

There’s a whole FB group on various methods and setups that’s more likely to confuse you and scare you away from the concept, with terms like the “death-mod grigri”!

I think the main thing is to be methodical, good at systems and constant self checking.

Apparently the good standard is the now hard to get hold of Silent Partner, but they go for hundreds of US dollars second hand.

I looked at it and decided I’m too lackadaisical and timid to do it. 
 

NB, the complexity and danger of getting it wrong increases substantially with solo leading, compared with solo top roping. 

He is indeed. I've just checked and it's out now, I've been waiting for it so thanks for the reminder.

To the OP: Buy "On the line" by Andy Kirkpatrick. I haven't read it yet, but it's guaranteed to have everything you need to know, a huge amount of stuff that you don't need to know, and some funny bits.

If you're just trying it out, a GriGri and backup knots is completely fine to work moves. 

There are various setups that have pros and cons, but it's not necessary to buy more kit. A Taz Lov is the best all round device really, but a bit extravagant if you're just wanting to dip your toes in. 

The Silent Partner is considered gold standard* for lead rope soloing, but the OP is talking about top rope soloing, where I think there are better setups than a silent partner.

*I think I read on one of the US forums that some people are actually going off the silent partner now, because some crucial part of the internal mechanism is a susceptible to failure, especially in cold conditions. No idea whether people who have silent partners are considering stopping using them, or if this is just the sort of thing people without silent partners say so they feel less sad about not having one!

To the OP: Trying moves/short sections on a grigri on ab with a backup knot is totally fine. If you want to do whole pitches/longer sections a grigri does work (you'll have to pull rope through yourself) but is quite annoying, there are better methods.

Most popular method is probably a couple of progress capture pulleys, either both on the same rope or one each on two separate ropes.

Regardless of what device(s) you use, make sure the rope is protected from cutting at the top of the crag, falling off on it is worse than just abbing down, so pad any bits where the rope is in contact with rock/anything abrasive at the top.

Do go and have a read pf the definitive UKC post on the subject

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/self_belay-585928?#x7757184

No it’s not a terrible idea. Best if the rope is partially weighted at the bottom by having a small rucsac or the rest of the rope coiled hanging off the ground. This makes the gri gri run better. If you can experiment with having the gri gri oriented upwards with a sling off your shoulders or chest this will make it run better too. Instead of tying knots I’ve found it less fiddly to just clove hitch a krab every so often.

Run better?  Are you thinking of a Mini-Traxion or something?  A Gri-Gri won't 'run'. 
(Well not an unmodified or, depending on your point of view, undamaged one anyway.)

I'm pretty sure he means the rope running through the device smoothly when climbing.

I'm sure he does too, but in my experience the rope won't run through a Gri-Gri while climbing.  You need to reach down whenever you have a hand free and pull it through yourself.

Weighting the rope slightly is a good idea with a device that will run like an ascender or a progress-capture pulley, eg: Shunt, Mini-Traxion, etc.  But I really don't think it's a good idea with a Gri-Gri.

Second this, the more weight you add the more likely it is to lock up in my experience. A trax with some sort of back up is always the best shout in my mind. Just make sure it keeps running, don't want to have any significant fall on a toothed device.

Dave Macleod has a fantastic video on top rope soloing on his YouTube channel. It mainly focuses on the Petzl Shunt but covers a lot on rope management and safety. Worth a watch if you are new to it

Liam

I've had a grigri I've trailed run up a rope while jummaring after the first 10m or so, so quite similar to trs. It probably needs quite a specific rope/weight below combination though. I've more often had it where I need to pull the slack through most of the time.

I use the old style gri gri and twist a bit of plastic covered electrical wire into a loop and jam it through the closing end of the gri gri. I have short sling round my neck and attach it to the wire loop. If the rope is reasonably weighted it will run through as you climb. A chest set up to attach the loop might be better than the sling. Tend to use skinny ropes too. The clove hitched krabs are my fail safe. 

Ah, right.  I sit corrected then, that's not something I'd have thought of doing.  Thanks for the clarification.  (I haven't done much TR soloing, but the little bit I have done I used a Gri-Gri as the backup device on a separate rope pulling through the slack by hand as an when.)

Interesting, thanks.

Maybe so.  Mine was an old Gri-Gri on a chunky rope, so perhaps a bit less slick than a newer set-up.

Using the gri gri is more versatile than a shunt as you don’t need to change device to lower down to work moves or whatever. 

If you're willing to splash some cash then the TazLov2/3 devices are by far the best for TRS. Run more smoothly than a GriGri and still offer the lever to abseil/work moves.

A grigri is an okay top rope solo device in a pinch but as mentioned by others it isn't self feeding so you need to stop to pull through rope, which could get annoying on longer routes or sections There have been people who've death-gripped the grigri as they fell which prevented the cam from engaging, so that's something to consider.

Generally it's fine to use.

I'd always been put off using g a gri gri for this (over a shunt) is I thought there was a risk if you didn't shock load the gri gri sufficiently ir wouldn't engage I.e if you gently slumped on to the rope? I'm a total novice at this sort of thing though.

There are situations where the Gri Gri won't lock up. The rope needs to have very little weight/friction on it and wrapped round in a way that the rope forms a circle in the device. It's quite unlikely but I've always felt safer using a Trax or a Shunt, even if you can't lower easily.

Do you find you need to release it from your improvised 'neck strap' first, or just leave it on?

Yep - in my limited (and not particularly recent) TR solo experience, I've found it handy to use my Gri-Gri for this even though it was the back-up device - udge up a bit while pulling out the slack to transfer all my weight to the Gri-gri and unweight the other device, release that, ab down a bit, have another go.

There's a slight, but real, risk of that happening in a conventional belay situation if you're belaying with a gri-gri using a slick rope 'hands free'.  But there the rope feeding through the device is only hanging down as far as the floor from at or below waist height.

Any kind of resistance to the rope feeding in to the Gri Gri sets up a sort of feedback loop of positive reinforcement to lock it up - the resistance of the rope going in closes the cam a bit, which pinches the rope going in a bit, which closes the cam harder, etc..

In TR solo, once you gain some height and have the weight of a bit more rope hanging down below, I would say the chances of that happening reduce from really very unlikely to 'super good enough' near zero.

Likewise the Shunt.  (Which is often recommended despite not being the best device available to use for TR solo, in my unqualified opinion, almost since it was the only one.)

Cheers, makes sense, might give my gri gri a go when next on my stupid local project, as I find releasing a shunt a bit of a faff and pulling the slack through at regular intervals would be fine.

I'm a bit of a wuss when it comes to toprope soloing and I get very uncomfortable on a grigri even with only a foot or two of slack, so working anything other than a single move isn't a pleasant experience.

For this reason I invested in a Taz Lov 3, and because it follows me up the rope I'm now much happier stringing crux moves together. I believe the 2 is functionally identical to the 3 once it's on the rope, so maybe worth considering to save a few bob.

Don’t know if I need to but yes I’d just unclip the krab connecting the wire loop and the sling so it’s not in the way 

Thank you for raising this, as it has brought up some useful answers; and I have very little experience in this area.

BTW this looks like a neat way to set it up at the chest using a bicycle inner tube!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LeadRopeSolo/permalink/1074688986864953/

(It’s a private group so you need to join to view)

Ta.  But it's a 'private' group - you have to join to be able to see the content.  Worth doing for anyone reading this thread who's also on FB and interested maybe, but that's not me tbh.

(I don't think I'm likely to do any more TR soloing any time soon.  And even when I was, I always figured that if I wasn't confident enough in the system to fall about the length of a quickdraw before the device locks I probably shouldn't be doing it, so never bothered with chest harnesses, neck straps and the like.)

On the subject of improvising climbing equipment with bicycle inner tubes though - where's Chris Tan when you need him eh?  (Usual hollow laugh follows..)

Edit: 
Ha - I just saw your edit!

As many have already mentioned.... for proper toprope solo, there are a lot better equipment (the fancy TazLoves, or more un-refined stuff like Shunt, Ropeman etc.). All of them have their limitations, which you really need to understand (and apply suitable safety measures... like backups).

So I've used GriGri's, Ropeman's, Lift and Microtractions for toprope solos.  Some of them work better than others. GriGri is indeed great if you can access the top anchors, rap in... and then try a few moves here and there.

But if you want to work the whole pitch, the other devices are more suitable (basically as long as the rope is weighted at the bottom, there really is no need to pull the rope through).

I prefer to work routes/pitches using a static rope and lift (plus as a backup a trailing minitraxion) in the summer. Works fine, but these are the kinds of routes that take a lot of working. If it's more closer to my OS limit, I might use use the grigri to  see how it feels.

Do you use the Taz Lov with a chest setup? I’ve bought one but not used it yet.

I haven't been doing that, but I think I'll probably prefer it that way when I've got around to experimenting with it more. It's worked well enough so far without.

I use a GriGri all the time when working and practicing moves on a new route prior to bolting. 

The problem is, I never do this without a back-up knot below me so I have to stop and rest on the rope to tie them every 2/3m max. For this reason I don't find it much use when you want to flash a whole pitch without resting - unless it's a proper hands off slab or you can tie a knot one handed.

I also have another system which is a Petzl Croll into an 8mm steel maillon on my harness held vertical with a bungee over my shoulders. I have a Shunt as back-up on a long cow's tail which I find easy enough to push up in front of me as I climb. The only pain with this system is that it's time consuming swapping to something to descend, usually my GriGri.

Watching Dave Mac shunting on his projects, mostly way overhanging and even horizontal stuff, without back-up knots gives me the jitters.

E

Never had this problem personally, Grigris are fairly foolproof mind. If you were completely hands free when belaying I'd not be impressed but I trust it top rope soloing and I'll jug up on it all day long so the line must be somewhere. If in doubt tie a fat knot at a height that means you won't deck and then have at it.