UKC

Hello,

Some of my cams have started to get stiff (probably sea cliff climbing) so I'm looking to clean and lube them.

I was looking at Finish Line Ceramic Wax Lube as the Metolius cam lube doesn't seem to be sold in the UK and that's a wax based lube so I guess it's similar stuff?

Either that or GT85, so looking for advice on which would be better. Or other options?

I have searched on here but couldn't find a particularly clear answer.

If anyone is interested it's DMM 4CU cams. Old but I like them as I've have them so long, probably need to be reslingged though.

After sea cliffs, Ive always started by gently washing through with warm water and only a couple of times needed anything else afterwards. 

DMM recommend Henkel Superlube, 3-in-1 oil or Duck Oil

https://dmmwales.com/blogs/knowledge/cam-inspection-and-maintenance

I've always used WD40 which is what Wild Country historically recommended. 

I think I recall that you need to keep WD 40 (maybe other lubricants too) away from the slings.

Yes WD40 with care for me.

I struggle to see what the problem is, but DMM say “do not use graphite or lubricating oils that contain degreasing agents such as WD40”.

Isn’t the issue that the lubricating oil attracts and retains larger particles and pieces of grit that salt water does not? I don’t know at all but that’s what I wondered when I did think about it 100 years ago or so. 

It can't be that if they're recommending 3 in 1, it's a much heavier oil and will be even stickier.

I bought cam lube from Dick's not long ago.

Irt everyone saying wd40:

It's not a lubricant. Don't use it as a lubricant. Also it's the last thing you want all over your hands on a soapy limestone sea cliff.

That's a complete myth. Literally says it's a lubricant on the website " WD-40 Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants."

It's a blend of lubricants with mostly not lubricants. It is at best a crap lubricant. Maybe 20% of it could be called lubricant.

It's for freeing rusty bolts and degreasing and dewatering. If you want a lubricant don't buy wd40.

I completely misread that and sprayed tea all over my laptop...

Most products are likely to pose problems if you are overapplying them to the point where you can get them all over your hands just by handling a cam.

WD40 is fine is used sparingly.

Wd40 gets everywhere even used sparingly. That's exactly what it's designed to do.

DMM recommend ".. A suitable lubricant (Henkel Superlube, 3-in-1 oil or Duck Oil)" https://dmmwales.com/blogs/knowledge/cam-inspection-and-maintenance

So 3-in-1 or GT85 something like that

(preferably NOT wd40, although that's probably not as big a deal as some people will make out)

WD40 is unlikely to cause any harm from a lubrication point of view on the moving parts, but it does tend to run so you need to make sure that you wipe any off the working faces of the cam's lobes.

WD40 is sufficiently thin that the interface between lobes and rock is effectively a dry one (interaction between surface asperities dominates the friction observed between the two surfaces). It needs a bit more care to avoid getting it on slings etc.

I have used cam lube in the past, but tend to use one of the dry lubricants that I use on my bike (nothing special, I like the small nozzle on my muc off bottles), I lay the cams out on a tiled floor and carefully lay the slings out so they are well away from any cam heads and then I apply the lubricant to the axles (a couple of drops on one side, operate the cam a few times slowly to allow the lubricant to flow down the axle, flip it over and do the same on the other side). If you have a propensity for climbing in the rain consider wet lube possibly.

The metolius stuff is remarkably similar to these things. Almost as if they've just relabelled something from a bike supplier.... When I last did my cams I did wonder if I'd been had, but the price wasn't any higher than what a bike shop will ask for with a straight face anyway.

I use it a lot in the workshop as well as on cams and it really does not get everywhere unless I'm clumsy.

The thing is, I have bike lube lying around and need to use it relatively often, I don't need cam lube anything like as often and it's more of a hassle than getting another bottle of bike lube.

Yeah, I'm with you. If I were the OP I'd be looking for something sold as dry wax lubricant. That's what the metolius stuff is, do it should work and won't end up anywhere it shouldn't.

I use GT85 on mine. Still alive.

Agree it's sense to keep lubricants, WD40 etc off slings. Is it known exactly what possible damage various lubricants can do to slings? Presumably nylon and dyneema may react differently.

Edit. Just searched. Dyneema and WD40 (Ukc 2006 thread). Seems Dyneema is probably not affected by petroleum or WD40. Don't know about nylon. Edit 2. TLC for your gear (Mountain Project): Posts giving different opinions on petroleum effects on nylon. I'm sure there have been multiple threads, anything definitive?

As other's have poined out WD40 is a lubricant, just a very light one which to my mind makes it suitable for cams as it penetrates the working parts and leaves little residue to attract dirt. Cams don't need heavy lubrication as the parts aren't moving quickly/repeatedly or under load. There may be other reasons why WD40 not so good for cams but the quality of lubrication it provides is not one of them.

If you're getting it on your hands, you're using it wrong. I lay the cams flat, trickle a little onto the heads, work them a bit, wipe off excess and leave them for a while for any residue to evaporate.

Yep, still to hear of any tragic WD40 related accidents either!

This came up a couple of years ago on a FB discussion https://www.facebook.com/groups/RockClimbingUK/posts/5282437795142106/

I actually googled a bit because of the vigor (although not the scientific rigor) of some of the anti WD40 arguments. I found a former UKC regular in 2007 quoting the Wild Country website saying WD40 is great stuff and doesn't harm slings or ropes at all: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/climbing_gear_lubrication-222095?v=1...

I don't know off the top of my head so it goes under the general rule of "possibly harmful, best avoided".

This suggests Dyneema is ok, but I am not a chemist so I may be wrong:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&a...

Late to the party also but as a MTB rider too this stuff has been gold, possibly worth a punt.

https://muc-off.com/collections/bicycle-lube/products/all-weather-lube

But if that changes, don't come back here to complain

In reply to TobyA:

Clearly they're all covered up. Conspiracy!!!

On a more serious note, I just use what I've got. 3-in-1 seems fine, equally Holt's ?? Window lubricant which is entirely the"wrong" stuff has also worked for me in the past (clear spray with PTFE in it, used to lube the groove a car window slides up and down in). We may be overthinking things 😁

Yup, this. If you use it sparingly, remove the excess and keep it away from slings etc it probably doesn't much matter what you use.

Impressive chemical resistance.

If I recall, it's not possible to dye dyneema, and it is the white bits of the sling. Nylon is woven with it to carry the colour. Nylon has good chemical resistance but some differences (acids being the main one I have noticed)

https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/

Do not buy Muc-off lubricants. They really are incredibly bad. They attract dirt like no other and do a very bad job of actually lubricating a chain (or probably a cam but they are overkill). Check any bike lube comparison site if you don't believe me. 

I would reiterate what others have said and go for a dry wax lubricant, or if you're really cheap then melt some paraffin wax, add some isopropyl alcohol, shake it up and drip it on your joints. 

Wax will fill gaps better than an oil and attract less dirt than either an oil or grease. 

Pretty much anything will do used sparingly or with the excess wiped off.

By preference I used boiling water with soap to remove crap, WD40 to get stuff moving and graphite powder to keep it moving. That's overkill, any light oil will do.

In a push I've used filthy dipstick oil from the car, cooking oil and even puddle water.

Jk

Those are the only two things that dmm say don't use.

I don't see how it would do any harm either, but wd40 is really far from the best thing for this job.

I use Browning Legia spray. Its a very light gun oil, similar to GT85.

All pretty much guaranteed to kill the mood, though, one way or another

I swear by Interflon Fin Super, it's very expensive but it's also the best penetrating lubricant I have ever used. 

Duck oil. Every time

I can see the graphite could exacerbate electrolytic corrosion but so far as I can tell mine never suffered from it and very rarely seized despite a lot of neglect.

By contrast, my forged krabs are mostly flakey dust due to salt. My cams will have almost all been older extruded types without any forging of the loves.

Jk

Anything that means they don't stick and doesn't damage the slings. I've used olive oil and vegetable oil before, also used WD40 and a different lubricant I can't remember. I try and keep it off the slings, though I don't know why it would damage them.

They don't have to go through millions of cycles under load and be as efficient as possible, all they have to do is not stick, so anything that achieves that is fine.

Just noticed this part. Not long ago I sent a 4CU with a broken wire to DMM. Came back rewired, clean and lubricated with a new sling for very little money. Maybe just do that.

Personally I'd avoid the wax based lube as it gunks up the coil in the cams and makes them less smooth. Back when I bought my first set of cams HB advised finish line dry, I've tried a few different things but IMO that's the best stuff I've used. If the cams are dirty clean with warm water, pure soap and a tooth brush, rinse well then leave to dry, then apply the lube. I'd avoid heavier oils as they tend to attract dirt and they leave more gunk that will get on the rest of your kit. Once the finish line dry has evaporated there really isn't much left. Whatever you use be careful to keep it off your slings.

Always been happy with GT85, personally.  After sea cliffs, I'll just hose them off beforehand.

Also the blue wet weather Muc Off turns into a thick sticky mess then hardens if you don't change it regularly. Found this out on one of my bikes. It's on You Tube too.

Agreed. I migt use WD to free them off if properly siezed then GT wiping off and drying with rag/tissue until I have removed all excess