UKC

Hey All, 

I recently found myself faced with a dilemma - I had planned to tackle a gully grade 1 in the Cairngorms today, but upon checking the weather forecast, I decided to postpone my climb due to wind speeds reaching around 40mph.

As someone who is still gaining experience in winter climbing, I'm eager to learn from those with more expertise. I'm curious to know what you consider to be acceptable wind speeds when going into winter gullies. Are there specific ranges for wind speed and gusts that you deem safe for climbing?

Any insights, tips, or personal experiences you could share would be greatly appreciated🙏

With the wind direction, assuming northern corries, you would have probably had a windy walk-in, fairly sheltered climb in the gully, and then a very windy time on the summit plateau. Whether you're happy in 40mph wind at the top is kind of individual - I've done it, and whilst it's not fun, it's manageable. But that's just the effect of the wind on you.

What would have put me off is the effect of the wind on the snow conditions. Check out https://www.sais.gov.uk/northern-cairngorms/ and https://ncairngormsblog.sais.gov.uk/2024/03/avalanche-day-6/ and you'll maybe conclude staying out of those gullies was a good idea. Would probably have been a low-level day for me I think.

It very much depends on your tolerance for Scottish winter weather! It also depends on the gust speed. Personally I'd give 40ph a go, I managed a route on Cha No a month ago, with constant 50-60mph (but south easterly so the crag was sheltered) the walk in was brutal, and involed being blown over several times but I was keen and picked an easy route. 

Something to note is in the Nothern corries southerly winds will often result in ferocious gusts down into the corrie, so you dont really get much shelter.

The thing about the Northern corries (if that's where you thinking) it's pretty low commitment so you can always walk in and see without wasting a day.

Also watch out for windslab.

Edit just saw this and would say you made the right call https://ncairngormsblog.sais.gov.uk/2024/03/avalanche-day-6/

As others have alluded a wind speed you may choose to go out in will vary, and there are other equally important factors.

The more snow blowing about whether that be from precipitation or spindrift redistribution the more considered the route and the descent option(s) choice(s).

40 mph with alot of snow or spindrift is a serious proposition before factoring any developing or changing avalanche hazard. 40mph with solid consolidated snow and no redistribution is possible with good route choice.

Also...

Think very carefully about the trend (ie improving / deteriorating). If it is bad conditions you will be slower. Think about the descent...Will it involve a crest. Windslab can form quickly. Can you lose height safely and quickly. How cold is it?

Before you top out sort as much as possible out....minimise time sorting gear in the wind, have your compass set and to hand. Eat something before the top  Know where to head (and a back up). Goggles, face mask, extra layer of gloves.

40mph needs some thought, it will make the outing serious and if anything doesn't go right really serious.

+1, make sure you're second knows the plan too.

Op. Often you can climb in peace and top out with it being completely mental, hard to even talk, you might decide to stay roped together until you find shelter behind a boulder or are further do.

As said above, wind moves snow, keep an eye on the conditions. In large curved corries I've known the wind to kind of vortex around, dumping snow in odd places.

There's a common rule-of-thumb for the alcoholic generation; speed in mph divided by ten is equivalent to number of pints of beer drunk.... so at 40mph you'll have a few arm-waving big steps, at 80mph you'll be hanging onto the ground trying to stay attached. Your own mileage may vary... 

If the direction of the wind is directly up the gulley, it could be a bit of a chilly funelling experience. If it's directly down the gulley, it doesn't make much difference, just turbulent flow over the top as with all other directions. Valleys are sheltered, local terrain effects can give you higher local speeds and buffeting, but probably nothing too stern at 40mph. 

If there's loose dry snow (recent snow, cold temps) you could get a bit of a sandblasting/spindrift experience. 

Read the other comments on safety - snow redistributed by wind is where plenty of avalanche hazards originate. 

Y

Wind direction matters, wouldn't want to be in a gully which the wind was directly whistling down at very high speed because it would be annoying. Have found in general that gullies are quite sheltered and peaceful compared to conditions raging elsewhere on the hill. Worth doing all your kitting up for the summit before you top out though, who knows what it will be like when you stick your head over the edge. 

I'd be very wary of heading for gullies in lee of the wind as they are sheltered. Typically (but not always) this will lead to unstable cornice formation above the gully and wind slab forming in the gully also the walk in is likely to be more avalanche prone. Typically the climbing conditions in lee areas can also tend to be worse with looser snow. Its normally a better bet to head to the scoured side of the hill or stay at home IMO. There are times when snow isn't being redistributed much and in these rarer conditions gullys in lee of strong winds can be OK.

I learned my lesson doing exactly this when I first started winter climbing after an avalanche went down the gully next to the one we were in!