UKC

My very kind Dad, who is very good at DIY (but not a climber) has taken pity on my and agreed to make me a board for my spare room. He's just sent through the design and I wondered if any small board officinados out there had any feedback before I gave him the thumbs up? The gap at the base is for a kickboard

Can you fix it to joists in the ceiling rather than having the side supports? It's much more versatile and less likely to cause injury when you pop off a move. Allow some height for mats as well as the kickboard. 

The stud sizes he's proposing are way too skinny! Also, the climbing face dimensions should surely be in 400mm / 600mm modules to correspond with the size of a standard sheet of ply. So, say 2400mm wide or tall.

I'd agree with the comment about somehow losing the struts at the sides, they'll just be annoying and get in the way on occasion.

My initial plan was to attach it to the joists, but after speaking to a few local friends with boards everyone seemed to suggest free standing was the way to go. It's also in an attic room with a 55 degree sloping roof that stops half way where there is a gap under the eves which make it s bit faffy

Alas I'm very restricted on space so I'm stuck with the dimensions I've got, I suspect I'll have a lot of wastage from the 3 standard 18mm ply sheets for shelves!

Ah, pity about the size restrictions, fair enough. But you definitely need chunkier studs or the board will flex way too much and possibly fail completely. 

Edit #2: you don't need 25mm ply, 18mm will be plenty. 

Cheers I will definitely feed that back, to be fair when I tried to explain this to my dad his reply was 'you basically want a stud wall at an angle' so I'm not sure he's aware of the massive forces I'm going to be generating with my new found training power!

I've built a few boards, one out of 2x4 and it was ok, but 2x6 or 2x8 are much better in terms of flex. You also need far less "studs" with thicker timber.

As well as increasing the member sizes, make sure the struts attach as high up the board as you can or the board will flex loads when you do moves to the top of the board. Also, the greater the angle of the struts from vertical, the more effective they will be and the less they will get in the way when climbing. 

My board is 45°, 3 full sheets of 2400x1200x12 ply, no kickboard. Originally, the green struts were a mirror image of the grey/red.

When the board moved to a different location, I had to shorten the green base member and I omitted the taller of the green struts because of the constraints of the room it is in. There was a lot of flex if I did a dynamic move to the top of the board. 

After adding in the green strut, there is no flex now. I actually ended up making the taller green strut vertical, and it connects 50cm below the top. 

Note that I have two additional timbers running up the back of the board, as well as some horizontal timbers on the back. I don't know if these are overkill or if the ply would flex without them.

In its current configuration, it is as solid when climbing on it as a commercial wall. The 500+ holds I have on there add a lot of weight.

In 5 years of climbing on my board, I have only ever set 2 moves where the position of the struts has any impact. There were big sideways moves to the top corners of the board where you have to hold a big cut loose. If I attempt either of those problems, I just put a sitstart pad on the strut.

I like that you’ve included someone on their phone to replicate the outdoor experience. Maybe add a barking dog and a drone. 

Is the design for it to be 35 degrees overhanging?  Personally I would go for 40 or 45 degrees.  It will give a longer length of climbing board for the same head height.

I would also go for a very small kickboard or not bother with one at all.

You might want to have a look at the design of the Moonboard Mini for inspiration, as that is designed to go in small spaces and there’s loads of stuff online about how to build it which might give you ideas, even if you are not going to put Moon holds on your board.

I did have a long hard think about angles, I'm a 6c-7a climber in my 40s, and I suspect will stay that way (perhaps not the 40s bit) so 45 would just be too steep without getting massive holds, allrgough as you say it would be better in the space.

Re the kickboard, I wasn't sure about this, for a small board is it not worth it? I think I read as much on the massive UKB thread.

If you swapped out the wood on the ground connecting the board to the legs for ropes and pulleys (or strong ratchet straps maybe), you'd have a handy adjustable angle board. 

Your sketch is a bit "MC Escher" in the way that you are proposing to attach the legs. It won't line up like this because the board is attached to the inside of the leg but also the the outside of the brace so it would end up a wonky mess. 

You'll want to frame the board properly with studs every 60cm and noggins to stop it from flexing. Sounds like most people go bigger but I got away with 2x3s for the studs but had 2x4 round the edges and solid fixings. The legs need to be the most solid part though, mine are 4x4 as I had some knocking about.

If you are squeezing out every bit of ceiling space, remember to factor in the thickness of the frame and board itself or it will end up steeper than you planned because the protruding back corner of the top of the frame forcing it away from the ceiling. 

Have you tried a 50° kilter board? I was amazed how approachable they are and if you train on a board, you quickly get better at climbing on them. I would also reconsider the angle for something steeper. You can always start with some cheap 2nd hand juggy holds and add in the smaller ones when you improve. If you've got a home wall, I'm sure you'll improve. There's plenty left in the nearing-middle-aged dog left. 

(At least, I hope so, being about the same age).

All this is assuming it's is principally for power, not endurance training.

I think this is good advice for board stiffness.

Regarding board angle, ours is 38° (a poor reflection of my building skills as I was aiming for 40°!) which I find great. For reference, I'm in a similar age bracket but perhaps boulder a notch harder: I prefer the emphasis on fingery holds rather than powerful moves, especially for UK rock. Remember that a kickboard will effectively reduce the steepness by 5° or so, and make all the footholds on it feel like ledges because of the favourable change in angle. I've had a board with one, then when we re-built the board after a house move we made it without the kickboard, which I much prefer. 

Thanks all this has been really useful, studs now beefed up, kickboard gone and wonky supports sorted (thanks Holdtickler for spotting that my Dad was very apologetic!)

I guess the angle won't be too hard to change with this configuration as you can just move the supports further out to make it steeper.

The board will be really heavy once loaded up, so if you do decide to tinker with the angle, back it up first so you don't squash yourself! 

They'll stretch so you'll still need timbers to make it stiff

pretty much how I made mine but I suggest that you put the strut directly between the board and the base timber. You'll need to calculate the angles to cut the strut but the length can be approx as it'll just slide into the suitable spot. This will save you using a 4 big bolts in favour of some cheap screws, or you could connect them with roofing plates. This will be stronger and more stable.

When my wall went into the garage I just removed the supports and attached it to the rafters. But the design as you have it is fine for a home wall

I would use something quite a bit beefier than 38x63mm. You have only a single strut on each side stopping it falling on top of you with a solid risk of serious injury. My board, which is 6m wide and seriously overengineered, has 150x300mm vertical wood supports at each side and an RSJ at the top edge. I think I would be going with 38x140mm timber for the end triangles. And I'd want something really strong for the top edge of the board, maybe doubled up 28x140mm, even over as little as 2000mm this top bar is still taking a lot of force when you dyno for a hold in the middle at the top of the board.

When you make a triangle at the ends like this, you need to do some extra joinery because as it is shown you will be twisting and bending the three pieces that make up this triangle. Easiest way to see this is to take 3 small bits of wood and try making that triangle.

The diagram doesn't make it clear how the struts are on the back of the plywood (on the hidden side). From memory, I think I did mine with 600mm spacings.

I would connect the two ends of the bottom of where the kickboard will be together with another timber for added stability.

5x40mm screws are, imho, not long enough even for putting through the plywood, I'd probably use 60mm minimum for that. You'll need some bigger ones for joining the timbers together for the frame of the board, I'd probably use proper timber screws for that

I would put nuts on your coach bolts so the joints can't work loose.

Depending on how the wall fits into your spare room, I would want to take care that the ends of the floor-level timbers could not be accidentally kicked out the way as the wall has no strength in that direction of movement. If they are going to be up against walls on either side of the room, you don't need to worry.

You have only allowed for 160mm of kickboard, I think that might be a bit annoying to use, depending on how big your feet are... I'd be tempted to go with more like 220mm. Though I realise you are so limited by the height of a normal room in a house that it is logical to want to use an absolute minimum kickboard.

The board will be stronger if you up the supporting side struts so they are longer and connected a bit further out at the bottom and closer to the top of the side of the board.

I'd probably use M16 or M20 bolts for the joins but that really is just probably a me thing - I live in fear when there is only a single fixing providing a structural support service.

Not been an issue in my experience. But then I have static rope going through 3:1 pulleys on either side so there's a lot of strands. Easy enough to tighten up. At 30 degrees, there is surprisingly little tension. I guess the weight of the board creates a lot of friction between the feet and the carpet, and at this angle a lot of the weight is carried by the base of the board anyway.

I did add timber cross braces with a locking bolts for a bit of piece of mind though, and drilled a new hole to lock each angle. 

Might be the length of support vs weight of board. I had a full moonboard at 30 degrees and was using wire cable from a winch and that still bounced so I added chains on either side going to the rear wall and it was a lot better.