UKC

Hi.

Can I open this can of worms again please 😆.

So I'm on the steep and long learning curve of learning approaches to alpine routes on skis. Seems to be going ok but on fairly tame ground...valle blanche/mont blanc du tacul area. I've just hired from Chamonix ski touring stuff. Anyway....

I'm set on getting my own kit and doing more. Main aim is getting in out of climbs.

Is the Kirkpatrick/ jon griffiths advice the way to go for kit: Hagan off limits skis, silvretta 500 bindings, +- learn to use climbing boots/ climb in ski boots? Or have things changed last few years. Or maybe better to get pin bindings and give up on any idea of learning to ski in climbing boots.

Lots of pros cons to different set ups I guess but I thought these guys advise was maybe good to follow?

Had a look at previous chats...Silvretta bindings not in favour much now? Get AT boots and bindings and climb in the ski boots/ +- carry climbing boots in. ???? Get Hagan off limits if want to take up a route...depends on objectives. 

If planning on not carrying skis up routes, better to have longer AT skis?? 

There's no one-size fits all approach.

If planning to ski down the vallée blanche after climbing, I'd definitely want proper ski boots. If planning to climb Supercouloir, I'd definitely want proper B3s.

For easier climbing or easier skiing you could do a hybrid setup, but personally I find taking two pairs of boots is the best approach. Modern (expensive) B3s don't weigh much and can be attached on the sides of your pack, and you typically leave the skis and ski boots at the bottom of the climb so the weight there isn't so much of an issue.

Yeah. It kind of depends where strengths lie, if you've a few grades of difficulty in the bank on either the skiing or climbing you can cope with a less than ideal set up. Or throw money at it for optimum everything, which can start getting a bit silly. 

Skiing in mountaineering boots is hard, and definitely much harder with the lighter, modern B3 boots. When Jon Griffith was writing a decade or so ago Spantik boots were much stiffer/burlier than what people use to climb in now.

Most people seem to ski in light touring boots and climb in light climbing boots, which works super well.

Climbing in ski boots isn’t that bad, especially ice climbing. 

If you’re only planning on owning one pair of skis I wouldn’t get a super light pair of approach skis. 

Transitions are a faff and take a bit of time, factor that into your planning 

I used to climb quite happily in scarpa omegas. Ski boots maybe similar.

Think I've got the idea wat need now. 

Thanks

Looking at cross compatability from the styles: If current B3 boots are comparable to 1960s ski boots (probably even less support) then current touring boots are closest to 1990s Plastic B3 boots. I still know people that climb ice in plastic boots. I dont know anyone that skis 60s boot/binding/ski tech. 

If you climb in ski boots, you learn the limits of the boots from the moment you start climbing. If you ski in climbing boots you learn the limits of the boots late in the day after you're exhausted potentially with no other way down, with a very heavy pack. 

I'd probably advocate for the two pairs of boots approach. Hire what you need to do what you want, and buy when it becomes uneconomical to hire. 

For straighforward ice climbing, climbing is ski boots is not too bad.  The added support is beneficial for reducing the strain on your calves when doing front pointing.  I've done a number of moderate alpine ice routes while wearing ski boots.  

However, skiing in mountaineering boots is very bad.  Any significant downhill is going to be quite difficult and you will likely end up wrecking multiple times (unless you are a highly skilled skier.)  Also, touring bindings are not designed to work with softer mountain boots.  The release mechanism is made for a ski boot, and a soft boot won't transfer the forces to the binding's release mechanism effectively, so you're much more likely to break bones in a crash.  

The only situation where a Silvretta and mountain boots are the right option is if you are traversing relatively gentle slopes with no significant downhill skiing.

If you're looking do do a moderate ice route on the Triangle, and then ski down the Valle Blanche, the answer is to both ski and climb in modern touring ski boots.  If you are climbing something that requires both difficult skiing and difficult climbing, then bring both mountain boots and ski boots.  

The Arcteryx Procline was an attempt to make a boot that could both climb and ski.  It wasn't great at either, but was not a bad compromise.  However, it's long since discontinued.  Some of the lighter and more flexible ski boots (like the Fischer Traverse series) make pretty good climbing boots, so long as you don't need to do any flat foot French technique.  

If you were climbing the supercouloir I’d have thought modern walk mode ski boots with a Vibram sole and normal length skis would be perfect, for the approach, the climb and descent.  I’ve done several ice climbs in pure downhill boots with the top two clips loose. If you’re a half competent skier you could probably ski the VB in any boots, given that most seasons late on, dependant on the Geant icefall and crampons for the arête, it’s barely a red. I frequently practice this by skiing with all the boot clips undone, as it teaches correct balance on the skis. The hardest pure ice climb I ever did in the Alps was a first ascent with Thierry Renault and we both wore touring boots and all mountain skis.

I would look at the Scarpa F1 LT, seems to be the best ski boot that climbs replacing the renown Alien RS. A lot of reviews saying they are very good for climbing, having been used on very hard routes in Alaska.:

https://www.wildsnow.com/31254/gear-for-ski-alpinism/

I've done 'some' climbing in my Maestrale's, looking to get a pair of F1 LTs to replace them for such endeavours. Best combination of lightness, skiing and climbing ability.

Also here:

https://www.climbing.com/gear/footwear-alpine-climbing-mountaineering/

With regards to skis, depends on what your after. A quiver or a single do it all. I have just one set of 90mm skis underfoot, seems to do everything except the extremes. Wouldn't want to carry them up a north face mind...