UKC

The simple fleece is a massively under-rated and versatile bit of kit - and Patagonia's R1 range is a great example, say Rob Greenwood and Penny Orr.

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Agreed! I've got 3-4 grid fleeces and although they aren't cheap, I can't think of many (any?) pieces of gear that I use, in some capacity, 12 months of the year across lots of different activities. The drying time, whether from rain or sweat is in unbelievably rapid too.

Also the R1 song by Sean Villanueva O’Driscoll and co is worth a mention, very catchy https://youtu.be/kni-AVRYwA8?si=UMm9qpLiU5Pngw7I

Ultimate? No!
Dead bird Delta MX for me, thanks !

i’d agree with arc’teryx being sufficiently higher in build quality to warrant the term ‘ultimate’ (i pretty much live in my gamma lt), and it’s other manufacturers battling for the price point vs quality that is ‘best choice for most cases.’ but jeez, they do make it hard in recent years.

i remember the delta line as very performance-oriented light grid fleece midlayers. breathable and meant to fit snugly, thumb holes to ensure sleeves stay put. nowadays, there is no more delta lt and delta mx, there’s just plain delta, and it’s some high tech grid fleece inner (reads similar to what was in the mountain equipment kinesis) with a 40D hardface covering, like the r1 techface. and to top it all off, they changed the delta line’s fit to, quote:

‘The Deltas offer a roomier fit in the body and sleeves than their predecessors, for improved comfort, versatility, and freedom of movement during high-output activities.’

i always found arc’teryx’ sizing to be weirdly inconsistent at the best of times, but they seem to be all in on the fashion crowd now with their design and fit choices. (i even plotted this out some years back – their M is fairly trim in the midsection and has reasonably wide shoulders, and the L allows an athletic back but the midsection balloons to massively tubby. mountain equipment and rab came out much more consistently athletic in their sizing)

‘ultimate’ might hold true for the old delta line, but it looks like present day arc’teryx isn’t offering anything that can compete with the plain r1’s technical goldilocks role. (patagonia was there a couple years back as well, when they had only the r1 air and the r1 techface available for a while.)

What can this Patagucci fleece do that, say, the Griffon by Alpkit (another "green credentials" but UK-based company) doesn't do at £59 instead of £160? Can you really give a rave review to overpriced products? One of my favourite fleeces cost me £15 last year. I feel like climbing sometimes is becoming unapologetically a persuit for the SUV-driving classes.

Montane protium (often found on sale at around the 50 quid mark) also offers similar performance level

Absolutely. I'm sure Patagucci model has bells and whilstles and looks nice and feels nice but ultimately grid fleece is grid fleece and 160 sterling poundage is ultimately the fleece equivalent of convincing yourself you need a rolls royce to drive to tesco when your mums nissan micra serves exactly the same purpose. Well a lot of people in the UK have disposable income for their hobbies (and to be fair it doesn't mean they drive SUV) and will spew the cash to LARP as an alpinist in the pub or whatever (I would wager that that is a significant, even majority use case of the 'high performance' items sold by companies like Patagucci), perhaps I would too if I had the cash, but pretending that there is a significant difference in 'performance' for the extra £100 is pretty silly and even bordering on dishonest.

I have two grid fleeces (fiver for both) and a salewa primaloft jacket (also a fiver) I got from the beris boot sale about 10 years ago and honestly I can't say that anything else I buy in the grid fleece or primaloft jacket categories 'feels' any different when push comes to shove, except that those items lack hoods, which would be nice. They don't make me look like an modern euro alpinist but I would be lying if I said that I really NEED something different to hike/climb in the vast majority of UK conditions.

It's certainly expensive, but I don't think it would make sense for them to spend much time commenting on that in the review. We can all read the price* and decide for ourselves whether it's justified based on the rest of the review.

*Actually, we probably don't even need to scroll down to check the price because we already know from the brand that it's going to be spendy.

I’ve worn griffon out in about a season. It’s made of much cheaper, thinner materials. The sleeves and body went baggy and didn’t hold their shape. 

R1 is expensive, but it is very nice and will last longer. 

I'm not sure: value for money seems pretty central to a review. But, I suppose the ad revenues keep the databases running and the forums up for people like me to moan on, so I shouldn't complain too hard

If we're reviewing historical items, then the MEC T3 has to be up there, though more based/light mid oriented.

Then there is Decathlon's Techwinter 500; if they'd put a grown-on hood on that, with a deeper zip, it would have been a killer. I did try to persuade them... Or their Simond Mountain Shirt. Both products long ago dropped, to be replaced by inferior items.

It seems to common theme is manufacturers coming up with a perfect product, and then changing it until broken, or discontinuing it, for reasons best known to themselves; the need for 'new season' product, or 'product development', or 'innovation'.

I’ve had an Alpkit Giffron for over 12 months and I’ve hardly had it off my back since. It even survived a long excursion into brambles (I’m not saying it’s thorn proof, I was just astonished at how it didn’t appear snagged to hell when I emerged - unlike my legs!). It seems unlikely that one manufacturers lightweight fleece will survive significantly longer than another’s (in fact my wife returned a Patagonia grid fleece because of pilling) but Alpkit do have a very generous three year returns policy.

I presume this article is because Patagonia have just started advertising on the site. I mean, there’s not a lot to say about a commodity item like a lightweight fleece that’s been around a while and, like you say, everyone thinking of buying one will make their own mind up on whether to pay the Patagonia label premium. A more important consideration for me at the moment is that I’d rather buy British even if they are all manufactured in China (or similar) and Patagonia are one of the good guys. 

Don’t Patagonia offer an essentially open ended guarantee? 

One could argue that (assuming this bit is politically motivated) that money spent with Patagonia is more likely to be used directly opposing the actions of the Trump Govt.! 

I've not had the problem of my Griffon losing it's shape and mine is maybe 6 or 7 years old, and I have used it a lot but I agree that it is a significantly thinner, less closely knitted material than on my R1. The Griffon is great, and mine cheery orange, but not as warm as my R1 as a layer.

My R1 (non hoody) is now about 20 years old. It's been worn a load, rock climbing, as a mid layer ice climbing, backpacking - including as a pillow camping - and because I think it's looks (still) pretty smart and presentable with some decent jeans, just casually, particularly for traveling as it is immune to creases being stuffed or rolled up. 15 or 20 years ago they were cheaper anyway but I got it on sale for about what a Griffon is now, so in that sense it has been amazing value for money. I agree with everyone that they are really expensive now, but I guess if you buy something, like it and can keep using it for decades - you get your money's worth. I bought a slightly too big Patagonia Snap T on sale in January 1992 before I went off on my round the world trip before starting uni. I still wear it now 34 years later! So get something you like, that isn't too fashion dependent colours or style, as you might get many decades of use from them. 

to a degree, i sympathise with that. for one, those market pressures (every season something revolutionary!) may be lacking in substance, but that doesn’t make them less real. meanwhile, the core functionality for most pieces in an outdoors clothing system is fairly well-defined, well-known, and usually rather straightforward – so on one hand, you have a largely solved problem (i.e. favouring a series of basic items that just do their thing and change only in nuance), on the other, the need to stand out in the market, lure more customers, sell more expensive items (i.e. favouring some new combination of features every season, or some new material trickled down from some extreme use case to normal people level).

the mill works against itself.

on top of that, as william gibson said, ‘the street finds its own uses for things’ – so some new combination might indeed turn out to be just the thing for a lot of people. it’s just impossible to know beforehand. the street (or the crag, in our case) finds these uses, not the manufacturers.

I have 2x R1s- both a decade old & look new- great value- 

I bought a newer one a couple of years ago- however the fit was small for size & subsequently shrank in the dryer- so has been donated to a slimmer pal!

Yep I have one 10yrs old (bought as new but 2nd hand not worn) still going strong and looks as new. Yes they are expensive but (as I've said on other clothing threads) you can normally find items a fair bit cheaper than the RRP that UKC post on their reviews. 

Yeah Patagonia is expensive/very expensive but in the same ballpark as the likes of ME/Arcteryx/Rab even high end Berghaus. I guess maybe part of their pricing/marketing is if you've paid a good sum for something you're perhaps more likely to repair it, keep it in use longer etc 

Do they actually offer the same repair service in the UK as in the US? I have no idea, sorry.

Yes, and I fully expect them to be hit by some dubious DEI or "green & woke" tax by the current SCROTUM's admin...

The other thing is that the 'R1' has varied quite dramatically over the years; the one example I own is a 1/2 zip pullover, and it's a heavier weight than any of the '100 weight' fleeces I own.

It's interesting to look back at old threads on the topic of hooded base/mid layers; 'techwinter' as a search string brings up a lot of examples (going back to 2014: zoiks!), which would then yield other suitable search strings. In one thread, I compiled a long list of former examples...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/patagonia_r1_equivalent-662923?v=1#x...

Looks like yours truly started that thread haha ! The R1 I have has lighter grid (capilene?) material on the lower forearms and the first section from the hem.

Same here. I have 2 Griffons (by accident when I thought a new colour had come out but it was the photo on the website...) and 2 R1s (planned!). The Griffons went shapeless much more quickly, and the grid has "flattened" a little, but they still get used casually lots and are a good thing.
One of the R1s is about 15 years old, the second maybe 8. Both are as new in terms of performance and fit, and are my go to mid-layer whether walking or canoeing. However I did manage to buy both at offer prices when they were more like £100 RRP, whether I could justify the current prices would be a harder decision. Whether they are pretty much 3 times as good as a Griffon I couldn't say, other than to point out its always the R1 I chose for more serious outings.
I'm pleased to see the R1 range still prominent; for a while I thought they were all going to R1 Air, which is decent enough, warmer and clearly lasts, but isn't as versatile, breathable or comfortable as the good old R1 grid.

I've sent a couple of garments to them that any other manufacturer would be consigning to the bin. They've come back repaired, free of charge. Takes about 6 weeks.

Likewise. And with an R1 hoody that was almost new and damaged by myself through my own stupidity. I contacted Patagonia to ask if they could repair it, was completely honest with them about how it was damaged and they repaired it for free. They even sent a pre-paid label for the postage.

I have a couple of other grid fleece tops, but none are nearly as good as the R1. I'd buy another tomorrow if I was needing a replacement. Like others here, I'm generally avoiding US companies, but I will make an exception for Patagonia.

i feel similar. there was an article (sadly don’t have the link on hand) where somebody at patagonia outlined how them being overtly political pays off for them: every such publicly visible action leads to a number of people (their political affiliation left up to the reader as a minor puzzle) writing them how unwise it is ‘to alienate half of your customer base’ and ‘now’ that they’re so openly [liberal/woke/green/boogeyman of the season], they’ll never buy another patagonia piece again, and a larger number writing them with congratulations, alongside a general uptick in sales.

it’s probably not the most stellar marker of my character, but spending money on someone who keeps making the right people angry (and makes it work for them, to put insult to injury!) does soften the blow a bit. in my defense, the pieces of their gear i have being pretty solid also helps.

addendum: found the link. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-05-09/patagonia-shows-corporate...

I picked up an R1 hoody for £50 on eBay, brand new condition. It's great but I would not have paid £160 for it (or any fleece to be fair).

I have that R1, a Griffin and a Decathlon techwinter. All handy bits of kit. 

R1 tech face pullover is the best thing goochy ever made and then they stopped. I bought it on spec & after I realised how good it was it took 6 months to finally find another. This is my go-to cragging top.

As a lightweight windproof fleece  (1/2 zip) it doesn't get too warm, but keeps the wind off & partners up really well with the lightweight hoody version to create a super flexible combo.