UKC

Hi, I'm not frequent poster not sure I've ever posted but I'm increasingly frustrated and wanted to know other people's experiences 

I've been climbing on and off 16 years and I seem to keep having these set backs.. I struggle quite a lot with tendon soreness and tendonitis.. though with careful training and climbing I can get myself to a peak max strength, but I seem to only be able to maintain this for a month before I fall to pieces, tendons get very sore and it seems to take forever to recover, I'm 44 so no spring chicken but it's been the same the whole 16 years.. 

I then go through this hard time of struggling on sub max climbing and slowly but surely seem to recover and get stronger until the pattern repeats itself.. it bloody frustrating.. each time I seem to get a bit stronger but keep getting set back.. 

Am I purely just pushing too hard for too long ?! 

I know you can't climb at max forever but the set backs seem large.. I can be doing 7a+ sport one week and 2 weeks later struggling to climbing 6a+ lol.. due to just feeling weak and tired..

Am I just old a knackered ? 

Any thoughts ? 

Can't be bothered with silly replies so if no input that's useful please don't comment 🙂 

In reply to Dan_F:

At 44 you have plenty of years of potential improvement ahead.

Typically this (building up, short window of strength then injury) happens if the rate of improvement is too fast and/or rest is insufficient.

From the (limited) wisdom of my sofa I’d say make haste more slowly. Even better, see a climbing physio.

In reply to Dan_F:

Not sure if it's worth having blood tests. Low testosterone is something that sprung to mind but I'm not doctor. A lack of vitamin D might be an issue and low Protein intake could affect things if you're working really hard on a regular basis. Worth getting a bloody test anyway. How often are you training/climbing hard?

In reply to Dan_F:

Your age is no excuse.  My best years were in my 50's and I was on sighting  7a at 72 years of age.  Admittedly it was mostly Kalymnos 7a's but achieved simply by climbing a lot with no real training other than one session a week indoors in winter.

In reply to timparkin:

My yesterday levels are ok as I've had that checked.. i did wonder if some kind of vitamin missing but ive over time developed a balanced diet that keeps me lightish and covers my needs macro wise however nothing to say I don't have a vit issue I guess.. 

I try and do things in blocks so I'll climb lots sub max to get lots of stamina and mileage after a month ill add in some strength training like max finger board hangs pull ups ect.. I'll also do some band work for all things good regarding the shoulders ect.. then I'll start pushing the grade untill I'm at my max grade ready to to project something that may take multiple sessions.. at this point I stop the training as I'm climbing at my max.. I'm usually pretty successful and maintain it for 4-6 weeks then I'll feel myself getting tired.. plus tendon twinges in my shoulders elbows triceps biceps.. at which point I ease up and rest a week.. but then I fall apart lol it's like the stop literally slows me right down and it can take weeks to recover back to even close to being as strong as I was over that period lol.. weird 

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

Ye that was a joke about my age by no means an excuse 

In reply to Dan_F:

If it was running would you try and run your best 10k 3 or 4 times a week. 

If you're trying to climb near your limit, several times a week for a few hours a time, then yes you'll crumble after a bit. You need some more steady and or easy sessions to let those muscles recover, ligaments and tendons won't mind a break either! 

Good diet, warm up, cool downs, hydration and sleep will help too. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

I guess when you say it like that lol..

Diet hydration ect is pretty on point.. maybe I need to not push myself for as long.. its difficult because I feel good until I don't then it's too late I need weeks of easy climbing then gradually increased difficulty untill to get back to where I was..

In reply to Dan_F:

Some of those easier indoor sessions can be endurance(easier grades but repeat immediately so you get 3 or 4 ascents back to back), balance, technique sessions, so it's all helping your goals long term. 

Or identify technique weakness, mantel shelf jam, layback...

In reply to ExiledScot:

I came here to say this.

Imagine doing sets of 10 pull ups with 3 mins rest between sets. Your third set of 10 is going to be tough compared to your first set. Your 7th or 8th set of 10 will be very hard.

This model of fatigue plays out in meso-cycles; exercise regimes that typically play out over 4-12 weeks.

The OP needs to bake-in deloaded phases in to his training every 4-6 weeks where he dials back intensity (less weight/lower grade or  fewer reps and sets/fewer attempts). Other energy systems can be productively trained during this time.

Else exercises that lower the load but extend time under tension such as 10s or 15s repeaters, would improve tendon health.

In reply to Dan_F:

Some good points from posters I think.

I'll make two suggestions, if I may:

If you want to get stronger faster than you are doing now, make haste slower than you are doing.

If you are as keen as you sound, you might find investing in a coach created programme the best way to make progress injury-free.

In reply to Shani:

The old running matra was 3 weeks with 10% increase in workload, then an easy week. Which is close to the more modern scientifically researched schemes.

In reply to Dan_F:

Your story rings familiar with mine. 

I respond well to training, so on a training/climbing spree, I get strong quick. The tendons just can't keep up and tendonitis then follows.

Several things helped me:

Endurance training, the muscles don't get as strong as quick, so the tendons can keep up. The gentler loading still increases tendon strength over time. 

Avoiding hard bouldering, or spending too long on hard moves on a project. For me, it was just too hard on the body and something would blow. If it's a tweaky, unusual or desperate move, then just give it 2 goes and move on. 

I find a good routine on trips is 2 days on, 1 day off. Or 1:1 if needed. I'm amazed at people who think it's a good idea to do 7 days on, and find I get as much done. 

That's what worked for me, although I've still had loads of lingering injuries. Good luck with it. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

That is similar to my meso cycle but i use reps in reserve (RIR) or failure, so for a given exercise twice a week:

Week 1 = 2 reps in reserve

Week 2 = 1 rep in reserve (or technique failure)

Week 3 = physical muscular failure

Week 4 = volitional failure/deload

This all depends on rep/set targets (hence using a failure model), but I'm in my 50s and rarely injured (apart from a Dupuytrens in my right hand). At my age I can't afford to get training injuries. After 3 blocks of training I take week off (active rest).

Deloading and RIR also serve to keep me motivated. Nothing better than holding back when you want to tear it up. It means that when you do actually let yourself off the leash, you are 'on it'!

In reply to Shani:

This is what i was thinking.. I seem to be good at slowly building back up to my max being sensible not over doing it but once I'm at my max I push hard for possibly too long I guess and find it hard to out the brakes on.. 

In reply to Shani:

I think a lot of motivated people over train in many sports. Often when you've had a forced rest because of work or family commitments and you get out doing whatever you suddenly have one of your best days for ages. 

Put on a heart monitor and runners find their easy run really needs to be slowly than they were previously going at etc..

In reply to Dan_F:

For when you get into your 70's Rob Matheson has some tips

https://youtu.be/u7qdzVmm9zo?si=npARwQq3p16xJNWb

In reply to ExiledScot:

This! Especially amongst climbers. No one I know turns up at the crag/wall wanting to do anything other than "pull hard".

I do BW training hence my use of various 'failure cues' but programmed rest and deloading are what I put much of my training longevity down to.

The alternatives - injury-induced rest and exhaustion-derived underperformance, are so frustrating to deal with.

In reply to Dan_F:

I'm 44 as well and have struggled with the same, when I am pushing my best bouldering form, my elbow tendons are right on the limit. Occasional rest weeks seem to do wonders.

The most reliable thing though has been doing some weights. I never really liked pushing lumps of metal around but have found that the climbing gains and increase in stability and less tendinitis are worth it. 

In reply to Dan_F:

I'm also 44 and was stuck in a similar injury cycle. Stuff that helped me get out of it:

I frequently, as others have said, did too much too soon.

I only have one or two hard sessions a week and do easy circuits or easy routes the rest of the time. I try to space out sessions on hard projects so I'm not doing the same move hundreds of times in a week.

Injuries never really come out of the blue. I'd have ignored a niggle, not warmed up, been dehydrated/tired, tried a move at my max far too many times, suddenly done a crimpy project after being on slopers for the last month, that sort of thing.

Rest in between attempts!

A bad day is a bad day - my projects can wait if I'm not feeling great.

On a similar note, if a problem has a load of horrific crimps (I'm not great on crimps!) or feels tweaky in some way, I'm much more ready to walk away these days.

Annoyingly I learnt all that the hard way - maybe some of it helps you?

Hope you're injury free and climbing hard  soon!

Edit - actually I think all of that comes down to being patient. I feel like patience is something I've learnt as I've got older and it not only seems to be keeping injuries at bay, it's also means that I'm bouldering harder than ever in my 40s. It's not too late!

In reply to Dan_F:

Something I discovered recently and about 10 years late, which may be useful to some on this thread.

I’m mildly asthmatic but the preventer element of my inhaler contains a steroid. Steroids apparently weaken tendons, so you need to be particularly careful with the gradient of your training if taking an asthma preventative inhaler.

In reply to Hovercraft: 

I'm bringing that fact out next time I need an excuse why I can't do a crimpy move. 

In reply to Dan_F:

Your approach is a bit like walking into the gym, loading up the barbell with your dream personal best, and trying to lift it every day in the hope your body eventually catches up. In reality, you’ll more likely burn out, plateau, or get injured. Fitness doesn’t develop by repeatedly maxing out, but through progressive, appropriately scaled work.

In reply to Dan_F: There is a wealth of useful stuff out there from the likes of Lattice Training or various training texts eg The Climbing Bible, Beastmaking Training Handbook, Dave Macleod’s stuff, that might help you pin down the issue(s), maybe around periodisation. Or you could try a coach. This popped up on my feed today and might also have some clues https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6qk7FeBfilk

In reply to Dan_F: I’m also wondering what antagonist work you are doing to balance up the specific climbing training and to build resilience?

In reply to Dan_F:

You sound under rested and psyched rather than old and knackered. Although you are right that at 44 you can’t get away with over training on a regular basis and not get injured eventually.  Maybe flip the narrative in your head from ‘why can’t I constantly perform at my max?’ (Unrealistic any sport) to ‘what does my body need to perform at its best?’. I would suggest experiment with chucking in more regular deload weeks and deload periods during the year. You will probably find that your body feels better, you are even more psyched and your overall performance will improve. Maybe in the deload weeks do something else you love so it doesn’t feel like you’re just depriving yourself of climbing.