UKC

Hi all,

Looking for a bit of advice please, I have an old pair of mountain tech Glencoe axes (picture). And wondering if people recommend I replace them with something longer for my first season in cham next month. Will be around D grade mostly. 

Cheers !

No they will be fine.  I had the ones with the curved picks and still managed to climb the six grande courses.

Maybe I‘m way out of touch, but I was always told that dropped picks are bad if you‘re trying to self-arrest on hard snow or ice, they tend to get ripped out of your hand. I used to carry one like yours, another similar but smaller and lightweight, plus a third one of the same length as yours but with curved pick for glacier/steep snow descents. Be happy to be corrected!

It depends what sort of routes you are looking at. Difficile covers a range of climbing styles.

This. I assume you would want to use these on routes where two technical ice axes are generally the logical choice.

I think it's totally doable with these tools. Is it going to be as comfortable or enjoyable as a more modern pair of tools (Petzl Quark or something similar)? Maybe not so much. 

Only you can answer wether or not that is worth another 400+ quid investment. 

They are fine.

Make sure you take a long Allen key with you, I know from experience they can come loose during a climb if only tightened with a normal length key. 

For 90+% of routes people do in the alps quarks are completely unsuitable and a straight shafted walking axe would be better. You'll wreck quarks vertical shafting in snow, or if you need to knock off crampon snow. 

Lock tight is the answer. But yeah, the axes themselves were or axe bombproof, but the picks do loosen. I'm sure with many here we have collectively done thousands of alpine routes with vertiges.

In my opinion, being able to plunge the shaft of the ice axe is really important. There's a hardness of snow which is too hard to plunge an axe like a nomic, but too soft to hold a pick securely. You're much more likely to encounter snow like that in the Alps than in the UK.

Regarding ice axe arrests, my opinion is that the level of exposure in many places in the alps (where it is steep enough to start sliding) is significant enough that even the very best ice axe arrest shouldn't be considered a guarantee of safety. Think "last resort" rather than an active part of the safety system. So McHeath's comment above is correct, but I think you should consider "what is the best tool to prevent me slipping in the first place" as a much more important requirement than "what's the best tool to stop a slide".

OP: if I were you, I would take the Glencoe axes.

That is true, which is why these MT Vertige 50cm tools are unsuitable for such terrain.

OP needs a longer axe for easier terrain (unless they're on the short side themselves) where a 'slip' might occur, otherwise they'll be bent over trying to use their Vertige for piolet canne. This distorts your balance and risks your feet sliding out from under you as the weight is not above them.

The Vertige, which I used for years, were fine for climbing steeper snow ice routes, easy traditional mixed alpine routes, and water ice up to WI5. But modern tools are light years better for water ice and steeper mixed routes.

The OP says they'll be on D routes, though, which rules out easy angled snow and ice routes, so the Vertige might be OK for what they aim to do. If they do that...

They might not have it, or the option, but you can get them in 55cm and put banana picks on. Then there are the steel or ali heads. A versatile axe of their time. 

The main point for me is that they weigh a tonne compared to modern axes, which are much easier to climb with. If youve got the cash get some new tools.

I would personally get some new ones, especially for a season where you might get into more ice cragging as well.

Thanks for the great opinions all, very valuable. I think what I'm gathering is they're acceptable but not ideal (due to weight and outdated design). As I'm on the taller side I think my young man's budget stretches as far buying a walking axe for of course the walking, and using these axes with maybe an added hand rest. I'm fit enough and poor enough to deal with the extra weight !

Good tips on loose picks thanks for that, I will make sure I either locktight or make other adjustments.

Thanks for the great feedback all!

If in need of a walking axe then I have a camp Neve 65cm for sale on the cheap if you’d like.

Enjoy your trip, I hope you have some great adventures! 

I'd advise against retrofitting a hand rest to this type of axe and using leashes instead for a few reasons. First up, you lose the option to plunge the shaft in neve. Secondly, I suspect you may find it hard to find parts that fit the axe well and might have to go with something homebrew that you will later be trusting your life to. Thirdly, the totally straight axe means that the grip geometry is not in your favour, whereas with leashes you have wrist support which makes it easier for your hand to hold the axe. On later generations of tools (DMM Fly, Petzl Aztar) the added finger rests worked well, but the design was much more modern. If you're very keen to go leashless, I'd suggest saving up and buying some modern tools. However, this old school type of axe climbs much better than you might expect- the main drawback on lead is stopping to place gear and faffing about with the wrist leashes.

I always thought banana picks refered to the type of reverse curve picks those already have.

You might be right, I always thought it was banana and technical picks, but I could have been mis-naming them for 30 plus years! Depends I suppose which way you hold your banana. 

I always thought that Simond's Chacal & Barracuda  (late 1970s ?) were the first banana pick ice axe & hammer. Felt like a big improvement on terrors.

Yes, that is indeed what a 'banana pick' is.

I've spent my life holding bananas upside down. 

I'm interested ! Drop me a message on Whatsapp 07587420848

Ah okay I'll look into leashes instead then

Most people, myself included, peel bananas from the wrong end.