UKC

I have a 3 week trip planned to Yosemite in late Sept / early Oct and have been looking into camping & logistics options. Online posts I’ve read say campsites get booked up really quickly after pitches are released for reservation, so I’m looking for some advice:
 

1. I’m thinking of trying to book a spot at the Lower / Upper Pines for the full trip as soon as dates are released to avoid the risk of not having a pitch secured for the duration of the trip. Am I being overly cautious?

2. Camp 4 seems to other clear option but is only available to book 1 week in advance. How risky is it to be approaching the start of a trip and be relying on getting a spot here? 

3. for a 3 week trip, I’m struggling to see how the reservation system would work at camp 4 as it seems like you can only book up to 7 days in advance. Once you have a pitch, are you then guaranteed to be able to stay for the duration of your trip or is there a risk you could book your 1st night and then not secure subsequent nights?

4. It feels like a hire car would be a waste of money. What’s your experience of the shuttle bus?

For context, we’re looking at doing routes on Washington Column and Half Dome as primary objectives and then maybe some routes on El Cap after (time allowing) so the Pines campsites seem to be better located for this plan.

Any associated advice on camping / logistics is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

In reply to Alex Munnery:

I tried to book a camping spot online when they opened. They went in seconds. Ended up in Camp 4 which was fine but the rules have changed since then, as you know. You're allowed a night in the hikers campground before/after a bigwall route, which we used on one occasion, so you have that as a fallback; arrive and get straight on the wall.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

Camping in Yosemite is a bit of a nightmare. The first time I went we failed to book camping and spent a lot of time wandering around asking to camp on other people's spots in the pines campsites, which was sometimes easy and sometimes hard to do. Each campsite (equivalent of a UK pitch) is allowed up to 6 people, so if there's a couple of people on a site then they have 4 available spaces, which they can do what they like with.

Doesn't work like that in Camp4, it's for individual bookings so the rangers make sure all the spaces on each campsite are filled. There are often people trying to bivi or sleep on pads in places they've not actually got, so that is an option, but can lead you into conflict with the rangers. It's not a great option tbh.

I've been back since they opened the online system which made it fairly to get a place in late October. I didn't try and stay for more than a week though, so not sure how that would work.

I'm also going in October with some friends for about 3 weeks, we're going to try and book a campsite in upper pines when they're released. It's pretty good value for a group - $36 a night split between 5 or 6. If there's only 2 of you though it's not great value.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I think the backpackers campsite was closed this year? Though maybe it's operating under the same principles from Camp4, I'm not sure.

In reply to Alex Munnery:?

I know you didn't ask for advice on this bit and I might be missing the mark, but...

I know it's recommended everywhere as a first bigwall, but imo if you've not been big walling before I don't think the normal Washington column routes are a particularly good place to learn big walling. There's 3 pitches of relatively easy free/aid climbing to dinner ledge that are actually really quite annoying to haul. Then most people sleep on dinner ledge and do the upper 7-9 or so pitches without hauling and ab down after finishing. You do get practice aid climbing and jugging and sleeping on dinner ledge is fun. You don't really get much big wall style practice though i.e. pitches where you have to manage the anchor with all the elements going on including hauling. You do get that on the first 3 pitches but they're not great ones to learn on imo! The other problem is that it can be really busy and after you've walked in for an hour plus carrying a heavy haul bag you won't be inclined to turn around and try and come back another day when it may well just be busy again.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

We used the buses last year, it was fine for the majority of the time but occasionally it's a bit of a pain depnding where you're staying. If you get the bus from El Cap Meadow or Cathedrals to Camp 4, it takes you the long way round and has a load of stops. Not too much hassle generally but after doing a big route and with heavy bags it got annoying to the point we'd get off half way and walk across over the river to Yosemite Lodge and C4. Also, they tend to be loaded with sight see'ers and if you're carrying haul bags etc then you'll be getting in a lot of peoples way.

Going from SF to the Valley requires at least two buses from the bus station in the city and would also be a major faff with multiple bags. I only had a duffle and a 30l rucksack so could get away with it but managed to sort a lift on Facebook anyway. The other downside is that there's quite a lot of good climbing out of the regular bus loop that can only be reached by car. 

The other option is to hire a car from the airport, drive your stuff there and then drop the car off in Merced (Enterprise I think had a depot there) and then take the Yarts bus back to the Valley. 

I don't think you're being overly cautious about booking a campsite asap, it was very busy at C4 when we were there last year and had a few nights dodging around various pitches asking if we could put up a tent and use their bear box because it was fully booked (most people are nice, especially if you can get friendly with other climbers). After we got a spot on our reservation, it was pretty easy to then rebook it for the following week, either on the app or with the rangers at the kiosk, but worth being on the ball with it and getting in early on the Monday morning.

I think the rangers are less bothered about an extra tent on a pitch but are more concerned about where you're gonna keep your food overnight. I wasn't quite aware how on it they are with bear protection, one would often magically appear out of a puff of smoke if you'd left a bag of crisps on the camp table for more than 5 minutes (the rangers, not bears!).

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Thanks very much for the advice, I wasn’t aware about the ability to stay at the hikers campground before/after a route so that could be a great option if we can’t secure a permanent base while we’re there.

Cheers!

In reply to Fellover:

Thanks very much for the advice. Sounds like trying to pre-book is the best approach but good to know that there might be options to ask people with space on their pitch at the Pines sites to let us join (as there’s only 2 of us) and contribute to the pitch costs.

Cheers!

In reply to Fellover:

Not at all, that’s really good advice. To be honest, I’ve been watching a few videos of people doing the south face and the prow and I can totally see what you mean about it not really being a full big wall experience. 
 

We’d been looking at that as that seemed to be a bit of a staple, first wall but would very much welcome your thoughts on better alternatives? For context, my climbing partner and I are trying to not go in too bullish with what we can achieve straight away as while we’ve had lots of experience of doing 20-30 pitch routes in the dolomites in a day and have been practicing aiding and hauling systems here in the UK, we didn’t want to get ourselves (or other parties we might end up getting in the way of) into a mess. Let me know what you reckon would be good

In reply to Nathan Adam:

Great advice, thanks Nathan. Also, like the suggestion of hire car to Merced. I’d looked at the bus from SF and we’d miss the bus on the day we arrive and would mean we’d lose more time to travelling so this could help us get there quicker and avoid paying for a car to mostly sit idle while we climb. 
 

Seems clear that trying to pre-book is the way to go. Will have to try and have lots of laptops etc at the ready for the release!

Cheers!

In reply to Alex Munnery:

The only downside I could see from dropping a car off in Merced is that Enterprise won't let you hire for any less than 24 hours. So you could drive to the Valley and unload, spend the night and then do a morning shuttle back to Merced to drop the car off then hop on the bus to get back in time for an afternoon route.

Then do the same for the return leg or just hoof it back to SF with all your gear on the bus (worth checking how many bags each passenger is allowed and whether you can add more on, I think there was one under cabin bag pp).

Just a point worth noting, it was still really hot in early October last year and very busy with people and other climbers. I'm sure some days it was pushing 30 degrees and you couldn't really climb in the sun at all, it cooled down towards the end of the month and the whole place calmed down a lot in our last week so maybe worth factoring into your plans.

In reply to Nathan Adam:

Washington Column can also be pretty hot, gets full sun all day. Leaning tower is a other classic first route.

As others have said, rangers do try and fit people in if they can and hinted at turning a blind eye to people arriving late and leaving early for c4 (ie, we'll be here at 7:30am, make sure you aren't 😉). Backpackers make sure you get your tent tag otherwise you'll get a warning, we didn't after stumbling in after getting down from El Cap late one night.

Get up to Toulomne if you can, on of the highlights of my trip.

I haven't used it personally but turo might be worth checking out for car hire (like Airbnb but for car hire), some very cheap options. We had a car last time and even with a car it was a faff driving the loop road.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

I've not done the Prow, but from what I know it seems like a better practice big wall to me than the regular SF. Hauling seems more straightforward at the bottom and it's more normal to haul all the way to the top, though some people do still ab. Also has more involved aid, so good if you have a goal to do a more aid style route on El Cap, rather than the Nose, which has very little in the way of unusual aid.

R.e. time allowing. 

One thing to consider is that if you do want to do a full on bigwall style trip up El Cap (or Half Dome) it will take up something like a week or so of your time. Let's say you want to do the Nose over 4 days. You'll probably have to do a day before sorting out all your food, water, rack etc. 4 days climbing. Day of recovery afterwards. You might get delayed by a day if a load of other parties try and start on the same day. 

Obviously if you want to do stuff not full on bigwall style but in a day style you save a lot of time.

Are you thinking of trying Half Dome (presuming RNWF?) in wall style or in a day style? Wall style has fallen out of favour quite a lot recently, but some people do still do it like that. I think that if you're the sort of person who is willing to physically work hard for multiple days then wall style does open it up to a less good climber than IAD style does. However, I think the window of ability for doing it wall style to make sense* is quite small. I.e. if you're below a certain climbing ability RNWF just isn't possible, then there's an ability (combined with willingness to work hard) that means it's possible wall style, but then I don't think you need to be much better at climbing (combined with a willingness to do a 20h day) to do it IAD style where you sleep at the bottom the night before and after.

*This is hard to weigh up, maybe you really value the idea of sleeping on Half Dome/being on Half Dome for multiple days? If so, wall style makes sense. I personally really value not having to carry a haulbag full of stuff to do a bigwall style ascent up the death slabs. The hauling in the middle section also seems like it would be very hard work.

I should say that there are many actually respected people out there who'll recommend Washington Column (especially South Face) as a good first bigwall, so take the advice of this particular internet stranger at your own risk!

Also, sorry, this has turned into a bit of a waffle.

If you're coming to bigwalling from normal multipitch climbing (assuming you're not a free climbing wad) there's two fairly separate elements to learn - the aid climbing side (aid/french free climbing as the leader, jugging as the second) and the hauling side (throw setting up porta-ledge, pooing in bag etc. in here as well). I think it's worth learning one bit at a time.

Taking the South Face of Washington Column as an example, I think most parties who can do it over two days with a haulbag can also do it in one day without a haulbag.  If you realise you're not going to make it, you can always just ab off, it's only 11 pitches. It's less faff, takes less time the day before to sort out haulbag contents, walk in/out is easier. You get condensed aid climbing learning without having to exhaust yourself and get into clusters with the haulbag. Always an option to haul a small bag with your day food/water in it as well, for a bit of an intro into hauling. Depending on how much day food/water you bring the second might appreciate that - jugging with a pack on anything steeper than a slab is not much fun. If you take some cam hooks and sky hooks you could always try Southern Man (crux requires beaks, but can be bypassed by short diversion onto regular SF) or Skull Queen if the South Face is busy.

If you only have IAD goals then there's no need really to learn hauling atall, just keep ticking off bigger IAD's. That said, sleeping on El Cap is epic and unless you're pretty decent, IAD style isn't an option for El Cap.

In terms of walls that would be good as first bigwall style walls, I think the key thing is finding one that is not too busy! Easier said than done. You will mess stuff up and it's a lot nicer when there's not other people around that you feel like you're holding up, or worse, somehow getting their stuff tangled with your stuff.

I think the Prow is a good option. If you're willing to go pretty big*, Lurking Fear is a good option, the hauling for the first 10 or so pitches is really quite clean, way better than SFWC first 3 pitches, it does get worse (a lot on some pitches) towards the top, but by that point you've got 10 pitches of experience! I've not done West Face Leaning Tower either (on my ticklist for this year ), but that's another traditional first wall, which you would typically haul all of if doing wall style, rather than abbing (it's very steep, so a pain to descend, including hard to bail).

If you're just after practice, rather than a satisfying route, you could do the pre-muir then go down via the heart fixed lines. Pre-muir is pretty ok to haul and unlikely to be busy. Not very satisfying to come down without getting to the top of anything though.

*Personally I think if you've done some aid practise on Yosemite routes like SFWC which has gone pretty well and you've done a few pitches of hauling practice on 1-3 pitch routes (can use the base of El Cap for this and/or practice in UK) then trying something like Lurking Fear is perfectly reasonable.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

Hi Alex - sounds like I meet see you there! I arrive on 3rd October, staying for 1 month. I've been before, but well before the C4 reservation system kicked-in. For what it's worth, I am hoping to stay C4 the whole time, booking 7 nights at a time. Don't try to start on a weekend. The recreation.gov website needs to be read carefully and practised. I will also try to book Upper Pines as a back-up, but I hear UP is harder to book than C4 - I think you can cancel if you then get a C4 booking. I think C4 gets easier as you move through October. I am planning on taking the Amtrak train from SF to Merced, then YARTS in. I think Backpacker Campground only lets you sleep there one night if you have a YARTS booking, but I don't know if they police this. I also don't want to hire a car, but will if the first week fails. Indian Flats or Crane Flats are the closest outside of Park options. Don't count on wild camping or staying unbooked at any site. I agree with the comments on walls - SFWC was ok for me, but I agree could be better. RNWF was epic - I recommend sleeping on Big Sandy so you enjoy the experience.

Robin.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

Just to add to some of the great advice already shared,if you're planning to stay overnight on a wall then you'll need a wilderness permit. It's super easy to pick this up from the climbing rangers hut the day before you set off. https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbingstewardship.htm

Also, if you haven't already come across it, this is a great resource for big wall climbing https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/bigwall/

In reply to Fellover:

Bloody loved reading that. I have no clue about big walling, but that was a window into a different world. Please can you write an article for UKC ?

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Seconded, some big walling info for UK based climbers would be great. I think I'd struggle the most with breaking these bigger objectives down to manageable chunks like I do at home. Yosemite can be overwhelming for a first timer (as I found out last year). Quite difficult to get out of the ground up/onsighting mindset in order to practice aiding on routes whilst at home.

Mr Greenwood are you listening?

In reply to Fellover:

 
I hadn’t considered an IAD style, I think I’d just convinced myself that anything other than a wall style approach was the reserve of Yosemite veterans. However, based on your advice, Robin Lincoln’s in this thread (2-day approach) and other forums, it does seem that maybe I’m being too cautious in assuming we’d need to take a wall climbing approach.

We’ve done some long days in the Dolomites in the UIAA V-VI grade range and have been doing plenty of aid climbing practice on UK cracks (as well as plenty of hauling practice, so if we decide to take a wall approach, we’re not trying it for the first time on a wall). I’m thinking maybe going for a 2-day approach might be a reasonable objective for us and just focus on keeping the weight to a minimum and maybe suffering a bit with minimal sleeping kit.

Thanks for all the other advice as well. Feels like we should consider if Washington Column is really an objective we want to go for or whether we leave it and focus on others. 

I guess the big question - is it bonkers to jump straight on Half Dome?

In reply to Robin Lincoln:

See you out there and thanks for the advice Robin, you’ll see in my response to Fellover that I’m thinking your proposed 2-day approach on RNWF could be a good option for mine and my partner’s experience level.
What’s your thoughts on a Yosemite first timer jumping straight on RNWF?

re: travel / accomodation, super helpful advice, thanks. 

In reply to duncan b:

Thanks very much for the advice Duncan, good to know re: Wilderness permit. 
 

Yes, love the vdiff climbing content! I’ve also watched all of the HowNot2 big wall videos quite a lot and found some useful nuggets there. 

In reply to Alex Munnery:

If it’s any help I visited Yosemite in 1978 (went solo) and climbed with several local Americans (mainly Californians) who were helpful on getting me onto the big walls. 
I did SFWC as my first and we did it easily in a day and hauled basic kit with x2 gallons of water in strong plastic bottles (prob primitive with today’s kit). As others have said the first few pitches were awkward hauling to dinner ledge but went very easily. When I had led the first aided pitch from ‘dinner ledge’ and the American came on to jug and clean the pitch using my jumars he informed me he didn’t know how to jumar with my kit so that slowed things up. All the thin crack pitches which I led  above went easily and beautifully using my thin Chouinard stopper wires. In essence I don’t think you should be put off doing it as a first and just go for it. We got off easily going up the gully and off to the right and we were easily down by nightfall in C4 no problem as the American knew the trail down. We also walked all the way from Camp 4 along and behind the Awanhee hotel to the start with all the kit.

Also have a read of my In Focus article ‘The Lost Arrow’ which may inspire you about a first visit to the valley. You’ll have a more memorable time if you try not to ‘over plan’ everything ! 
Good luck. Phil

In reply to Alex Munnery:

Hi Alex

I didn't chip in earlier as I haven't stayed in Yosemite since the new Camp 4 rules, but I'd echo the advice to try to get a backstop booked - chasing a camping spot can be time consuming and demoralising! If you do end up hopping around, the Recreation.gov app is a must-have. There's often short term availability from cancellations and you can book a day here, two days there to get by. You might also end up having to go out of the valley to somewhere like Porcupine Flat to bridge a gap (one reason why a car gives you extra flexibility).

In terms of Big Wall learning, I literally spent a couple of hours in  Hobson Moor Quarry learning from a (very experienced) mate and then jumped straight on The Nose (just me and another El Cap newbie) and made a fairly smooth ascent. Steep learning curve (literally!) but don't over think it. I've "passed on" a similar "How to climb El Cap in Hobby" induction to a few people since, and they've gone on to have a successful trip. Happy to repeat.

There's some great advice further up the link, including the suggestion about separating out the aid climbing and big walling aspects. A bit of practice at each separately will pay dividends. You sound like you've practiced both - putting them together isn't such a big deal. Beyond that, the biggest obstacle to climbing a wall is talking yourself out of starting. The next biggest is crowds, and running out of water (crowds thin out - I reckon 50% to 70% of people who start The Nose will bail. If you are well-stocked, patient and focused a path will clear by Day 2 and it will be green lights all the way to the top.) A ledge is pretty handy in this regard, as it takes the pressure off having to be somewhere by night-fall and hoping it's empty - oh, and it's way more comfortable (happy to lend a ledge too). 

As a first wall objective, Lurking Fear has quite a lot going for it. Shorter and less crowded than The Nose and contains all the key ingredients. Unfortunately, I didn't write up my earlier El Cap routes (maybe I should try to make time to do a "How to Big Wall" article) but here's a write up from a "Big Wall at Hobby" session that contains a few hints and tips. 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2022/10/02/big-wall-apprenticeship-where-b...

... a blog post from my most recent lap of the Big Stone...

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2018/08/27/north-america-wall-trip-report/

... and a few musings from others 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/testing-times-b...

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/yosemite-the-ne...

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/why-do-i-do-it-...

Finally, I'll repeat an earlier shout out for https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/ - Neil is one of the most accomplished (and modest) Big Wall climbers in the world and also has a gift for clear communication, brilliant illustration and a wicked sense of humour. There's tonnes of great free content and you could do a lot worse than invest in his online course.

PM if you have specific questions - I always find it really satisfying to help bring on the Next Generation. 

Cheers, Dom 

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Thank you!

Writing an article would be fun. I'd be up for it if UKC is.

Edit to add: There is already a lot of good bigwall writing out there already though, Dom's blog above being a good example.

In reply to Alex Munnery:

It is probably not very sensible. Half Dome is a lot more 'alpine' than the rest of the valley. The RNWF doesn't have much in the way of fixed anchors for bailing and after you do the traverse (multiple pitches) at around halfway bailing would be quite involved*. So if you get halfway up and realise you don't want to be there anymore/it's not going well (which is not wildly unlikely on a first wall) it's going to be a lot harder to get out of the situation than on other walls.

By comparison you can bail on SFWC at any point on bolted ab anchors; same for the Nose (though past a certain point you'll probably just bail up); Lurking Fear is easy to bail for the first 6 pitches, then a bit harder but possible after that.

*I only heard thunder once last time I was in Yosemite, it was just as I reached the chimneys after the traverse - it made me quite worried! Fortunately it didn't rain.

Something else to practice for a route like the RNWF (also SFWC and the Nose) slightly separately to aid climbing is practising french free. In the right circumstances it can be a lot faster than 'full' aid mode, or strictly sticking to free climbing. You may well already be practicing that, but personally I have little motivation to practice it in the UK. So I'd be looking to do something like SFWC before RNWF to get dialled in on french free. Basically if you're trying to free something but you start dithering a bit about how to do a move, just stop trying to free it, put in a cam and pull on it, as soon as it gets easier start free climbing again.

E.g. For say a 5.10 pitch. Lot's of it might be 5.7-9, with a 5.10 crux. If you can free the easier bits and then pull on a couple of cams to get through the crux you'll do the pitch a lot quicker than full on aiding it in ladders, or trying to strictly free it.

If you can work out when to go full aid mode vs free/french free mode and fluidly switch in and out of aid/free mode you'll get a lot faster. Often involves working out whether you're wearing approach shoes (more comfy for aid, worse for free), or climbing shoes (can be downright painful for an extended period in aiders, but ok for a bit, obviously better for free). Something like RNWF is probably going to be climbing shoes the whole time (for the leader at least), something like Zodiac is going to be majority approach shoes. The Nose, it will depend how strong a free climber you are - Oliver Tippet recently did it in 21h without taking any climbing shoes, which is pretty amazing!

A few bits of information to add to the great advice above:

• If you are in Camp 4 you can ask for a tag for a “gear tent”, so you can effectively have two tents for one person’s booking.
• The Pines Campgrounds are nice to book in advance, but I found that I can often only get 2-3 day bookings in each site. It’s a pain to have to move everything between sites so often.
• It’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be in terms of “stealth camping”. Last year I spent 4 months here and only stayed in Camp 4 a few nights.
• I’ve always found the Amtrak from San Francisco to Yosemite to be pretty chill, even with big bags. You do need to sleep at the airport the night before though.

I’ve written a few articles for UKC on big wall skills and Yosemite logistics that should hopefully be coming out in the next month or so!

In reply to Philip Gibson:

Thanks very much for the advice re: your experience on SFWC, Phil and I’ll be sure to read your article!