UKC

Hi

I was wondering if someone could give me some advice in buying a 2 man hiking tent.
I've had a great little 2.1kg tent that my wife and I have used for years, but since it's last use we cannot find it - I think someone borrowed it and we haven't got it back. Regardless it's probably about time we got an new one anyway.

My query is really the definition of 3 season/4 season tent - for what type of walking you start needing a four season tent?

For me three season is definitely fine, but my son, though his hiking is confined to three seasons,
is starting to go a bit further afield and some of his hikes take him above 4000m - for example this summer his going to the Cairngorms in Scotland and later to Kyrgyzstan where some of the mountains (apparently - I've not been there) go over 5000m so the group will be camping at fairly high elevations.

Would a decent three season tent still be ok for those sort of treks ?
(My only experience at those elevations is in the Himalayas in October when the weather is beautiful,
but I've been in the Cairngorms and even the Lake and Peak district in the spring/summer when the weather is pretty brutal and they are not very high)

My searches so far has led me to understand that MSR Access 2 would cover all bases in this context, but it's quite a hefty price and may be overkill, so I wanted to ask if a decent 3 season like the MSR hubba hubba NX 2 or Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL2 are good enough to cover that sort of hiking ?
 

If we are saying 3/4 season is blustery, wet weather with maybe some snow thrown in then the access is a good tent but its not a fortress for big stormy exposed location weather.

MSR are bringing out a burlier 3 season hubba more suited to typical UK weather that will sit below the access in the range.

There’s always going to be a trade off between a lighter 3-season and a mountain 4/5 season tent. I’ve also occasionally wanted the latter in unpredictable circumstances where I really would have thought a 3 season would have coped: mostly gusty wind on tops and in passes.

The approach is either go lighter and accept you’re going to need more careful camp location choice and avoiding some areas or routes, or carry a heavier tent that gives you more redundancy.

I bought an option for the latter, and decided on a  Nemo Chogori as one of the lightest proper 5 season tent I could find, and have been happy with it, but it’s still 3.5kg!

You can save more weight with a single skin, like the Crux ones, but they sounded like it would be very wet at lower altitudes. 

Remote tends to need resilient kit not ultralight. There’s a reason “expedition tents” are heavier and it’s not solely about snow loading. 
UL tents are great if you accept the risks or mitigate them. If needing a self supporting design and light, strong and solid then I’d suggest the X Dome 2. 
You will always get recommendations for tents people own as they are familiar with them. So a Macpac Olympus is built like a brick privvy and not overly heavy for the strength. If you identify as short the Minaret is lighter and stronger. 
US tents often prioritize ventilation above waterproofness. I’d put most MSR offerings in that group. 
good luck

b

Thank you very much for the information.

It seems to me that a '4 season' tent generally means a winter (i.e single season) tent, and I am definitely looking for a backpacking tent, so I guess a decent three season one is the best choice. Just have to be careful about camp location.

There appears to be an endless supply, but the more robust ones appear to be more expensive than I was originally planning on spending.

Interesting point about US tents - I guess most parts of the states don't have as much rain as we do.

jethro writes:

   > MSR are bringing out a burlier 3 season hubba more suited to typical UK weather 

    Does that refer to the new 2025 model ? Or is there yet another one coming out ?

I'd say a 4 season tent needs three properties

1. solid inner to prevent draughts

2. low fly to keep blowing snow out

3. able to shed snow rather than collapse under the weight

You get 3 season tents that are strong enough to withstand high winds but which would be uncomfortable in snowy weather. 

4 Midge screens, to keep Mosqito, scottish (lakes) midge and USA black fly (Other varieties exist) out of the inner.

I've always assumed that shedding snow is the biggest difference between 3 season and 4 season. And that "expedition tent" basically means that you'd trust it in a storm where the consequence of the tent failing is near certain death and not just a wet stomp back to the car. Although in either case I'd look at the specifics of the tent and check the actual features and ask around this sort of place to see what other people have actually been using it for, rather than trusting to some word that the manufacturer may or may not have decided to attach to it.

Also, Kyrgyzstan is quite a varied place - we went in summer and camped in some of the valleys above Karakol, which felt fine with a decent 3 season backpacking tent. In the other hand, there are significantly higher and more remote areas where I'd assume you'd want something a bit more reassuringly heavy.

Hilleberg Jannu. They are currently selling at £1600 so sell a kidney each and you might have some change left. Only met 1 person who had one who broke into poetry when describing it.

To me a 3 season tent is for snow-free use only. Typically, ventilation is prioritised, and the inner will have panels made with mesh that cannot be covered, and the outer will not go all the way down to the ground. 

A 4 season tent inner will have mesh panels that can be covered and the outer will be going down to the ground preventing spindrift entering.

 At 4-5000 m I would expect snow and wind, and the much revered Hilleberg Nallo would be a lightweight offer for these conditions. 

The 'solid inner' version of this https://durstongear.com/products/x-dome-2-ultralight-tent probably fits the bill overall unless in the middle of BFN, as my Aussie colleagues charmingly put it. Regular poles/solid inner and can be strengthened further with trekking poles if you have them. The major bonus is 1.25kg for a large 2 person two skin tent. But if you want proper expedition resilience then the weight at least doubles (and the price often does as well!).

b

In recent times I've had access to a TN Ultra Quasar, an MSR Access 3 and, very recently, an X dome 1+. With those tents I've had to make choices about which I take to places in the UK year-round, which I take to Peru on a trekking+climbing+sightseeing trip, which I take with a baby in tow and which I would use in good weather at home in the Lakes. For what it is worth, this is where I landed:

• Peru - Access 3 (for 2 people) - used to trek in the Huayhuash during a week of poor weather, for base camps and high camps in the Cordillera Blanca and for high camp on Ausangate (camp at 5500m on snow) - happy we made the right choice given it weighs about half as much as the quasar, though it did perhaps contribute to a decision not to attempt Huascaran given its high and somewhat exposed final camp.
• UK - if not carrying far or in the depths of winter then the Quasar goes, otherwise the Access.
• The X-dome is saved for special occasions given the fragility of the materials.

If prepared to be moderately careful and put some effort into pitching well, the Access is a great option. But, its downfall in UK weather is the ventilation which is poor - it is quite a condensation-prone tent. For the weight though, it is fantastic compromise and gives something that will do everything you need. I would though, if intending to use it much of the time with two people, go with the three person - it is still around the 2kg mark all in and makes things much more liveable.

If your son's camping above 4000m or in places like the Cairngorms, where weather can turn nasty even in summer, a standard 3-season tent might not be enough. The MSR Hubba Hubba and Copper Spur are great, but they're more suited to sheltered conditions.