UKC

With the advent of the now ubiquitous super-foam, mega-stacked, carbon sprung trainer across all aspects of running, is the racing flat and the low stack fell running shoe dead and gone (and spikes from that matter)? 

I also wonder (and I don't run any more so don't have an opinion of my own) on stability, I saw a female pro IronMan turn her ankle exiting T2 in a race last week - is this a risk inherrant in the design that you just have to live with? 

In reply to BRILLBRUM:  the racing flat is pretty dead now as its not the fastest shoe for the elite, and certainly not for the average runner.  I've done plenty of races in flats, and if you got tired and your form deteriorated then flats really didn't help.  I know my times improved when I went to a more cushioned racing shoes, at the expense maybe of my finishing kick. 

Ultra low stack fell shoes have a place but for cross country, spikes, for longer races, more stack, for the same reason as for road races

It's a little tiresome to look at the shoes and wonder as I never ran what I would consider a good marathon ...and I think my style and energy efficiency would have benefited greatly. 

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

Pros and cons. This (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2025-07-injuries-suddenly-gradually-overuse....) suggests that high-stack shoes may contribute to long term injuries. Make of it what you will...

In reply to Marek: no it doesn't 

It is a strange article, and if they think that the likelihood of getting injured in a particularly hard session is novel research, I have bad news. 

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

I'm seriously not a fan.  Having a footprint out-width the edge of the foot and muscle control is a terrible idea.  And with soles so thick, when they roll, they really freakin roll.

However, this is coming from a single-track mountain perspective.  For smoother paths and trails, maybe they're fine.

Still plenty of companies making great shoes for technical terrain.  Dynafit Alpines are my current favourite.

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

They will be less stable, as there’s a much bigger lever. They seem to be the current trend. 
I did the Mont Blanc marathon last week and was the only one there in minimalist shoes (even got a comment saying it was impressive to do so) everyone else in big stacked foam shoes. They are faster as you can reach further and stomp harder on rough ground, but at the cost of long term injuries and inefficiency 

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

Low shoes are definitely still a thing for fell and xc. I raced last night and don’t remember seeing any giant shoes. I’ve started using Altras for bread and butter trails, taller than anything I’d previously considered, but value my (many times sprained) ankles too much for anything bigger. Very common even at club level in the road though.

In reply to grectangle:

Me neither. I bought a pair of ascis gel nimbus about 18 months ago and was horrified at the change in design/feel/control having used those our cumulus for about 3 decades. My solution was to search the internet buying up all the old nimbus and cumulus shoes I could find. Much cheaper as well! Not sure what I'll do when they run out though.

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

A few very good club runners are hanging on. Russell Bentley ran 2:23 at Valencia age 43 in racing flats.

In reply to echo34:

Occasional runner here.

I did the Snowdon race a couple of summers back (well as far as cloggy corner because of the weather). I spent a fair bit of time running up and down the Llanberis track.

I struggled initially with a sore lower back from the pounding. It's fast and hard.

I bought some Hoka challengers and they were a total game changer. No sore back, felt like I floated down the track.

I would be the first to admit that they probably compensated for a lack of technique/ strength for downhill running. But they were brilliant.

I wouldn't wear them on anything rougher/more technical due to ankle rolling 

In reply to grectangle:

I'm also not a fan. I have a ligament missing in my right ankle from an old gymnastics injury. That results in poor proprioception and laxity on that side (no matter how much physio I do, for anyone who is about to comment - I can compensate to some extent, but I can't bring the ligament back!).

I like the stack to be as low as possible and the mid-sole to be quite firm - that way I can feel what I am doing and greatly reduce the frequency with which I roll my ankle. These high-stack cushioned creations really don't work for me!

I had been using Nike Pegasus for years. While these are not as bad as some, recent models are moving in this direction. I have defected to Altra for now and am currently running in Escalantes.

In reply to kathrync:

Do you tape your ankle? I can't believe it's taken me until this year to start doing this. I smashed my left foot into pieces so really like cushioning, but I hardly have any ligaments/stability in my left ankle and kept rolling it. Leukotape is amazing and has given me a lot more confidence.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Yes, I do tape it and it does help with confidence. I don't want to negate that with super-stacked cushioned shoes though. I still prefer to feel like I'm in control.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Thats great , but he might have been 5 minutes faster in a different shoe. Which flat out of interest, and if you know his 1/2 split...

In reply to wbo2:

One thing that hasn't ben mentioned on this thread - at least I haven't seen it - is that there is a limit under UKA and IAAF regulations on the thickness of a shoe's sole. This is to prevent a silly "arms race" where people might end up virtually on stilts.

As an aside, whereas a thicker sole does assist joggers - those who place the front foot on the ground before the back foot leaves it - due to them being basically upright so they don't damage their backs and leg joints, it can (well) be a danger to runners (who do the opposite) as they have a forward lean and more likely to end up twisting their ankles, especially on any uneven surfaces.

Basic problem for wearing thick soled trainers is the same as for those (females) who wore platform shoes in the 70's, when it was one of the main causes of A&E visits.

In reply to fred99: I'd also note the op also included carbon plated shoes in their comparison to flats.  Carbon plated super shoes are very different to ye olde Air Mariah or whatever carpet slippers basics were selling

For reference my marathon pb is 2.23, and I bust my butt trying to improve that.  As I had a good half I could roll through half way in 68, before falling to pieces around an hour 40.  I was actually slower in flats as once it gets tough your form collapses, and I ran my marathon and 10k pbs in shoes that were definitely racing shoes but a lot more cushioned than real flats, limiting damage in the latter part of the race

 If I was in that position now I'd go for the most energy efficient shoe I could find as that's what it's all about

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

I wear flat spikes for XC.

I wear carbon plated mega-stacked super shoes for road racing.

I have a mix of trainers in rotation for training (variety of stacks).

I've also got a variety of trail shoes for trail. Powering down hill on flagstones in flats is not for me.

Could imagine easily rolling an ankle in a pot hole in any shoe to be honest, but Alphafly and Pro Evo Adios especially so. There were a number of people (all age groups) wearing Alphafly at South Downs 100 last month, so some seem to make them work for challenging terrain - might need to change at half way! In fact, one gent (who finished 3rd in 2024) said that they actually helped with his arthritic knees. 

In reply to wbo2:

That is rapid.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

That is an outstanding time,  but it should be noted that the winner was 21 minutes quicker, running in shoes with a 39mm heel stack. Mind you, the winner's shoes cost £450 (not that he would have paid that himself). 

In reply to wbo2:

ASICS (white and red - I don’t know the model)

1:10:11

He was going for Sub 2:20.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Uff, I feel his pain. But I'd be getting myself some super shoes.

He might not want to as it is definitely buying performance,  and I dont like that( this isn't cycling), but a couple % difference is a lot