UKC

Sometimes climbing with a friend we use his two 60m half ropes (120m !) for short pitches sometimes less than 15m. (My own preference incidentally would often be for a single rope, accepting some disadvantages, which is lighter and simpler.)

What is the best way of using one doubled half rope instead?

There have been previous threads about tying into the middle of the rope before climbing, but I'm looking for a system where it would be easiest to free more rope length if necessary so that a distant anchor could be reached after finishing the actual pitch.

My first thought is for leader to tie into both ends and for second to tie to middle using fig 8 on bight to anti-crossloading screwgate to harness belay loop. Belayer has both anchor setup and tube belay device each clipped to harness loop independently.

At end of pitch leader unties one end of rope. Second unclips middle knot and unties it, pulls dropped inactive side of rope through plate and reclips to end or ties in as normal. Leader carries on to distant anchor still protected by a rope.

Might speed things up by unclipping inactive dropped side of rope from belay device rather than pulling through, but sketchy if the leader unexpectedly slips while the gate is open. Perhaps easiest to clip active rope at plate to harness loop with another screwgate before unclipping the inactive rope (or both rope sides) from the initial krab. With care it shouldn't be necessary to tie off the leader while doing this.

Sorry about the rather unclear and faffy sounding description. Definitely not rocket science but I may be missing something blindingly obvious.

I appreciate that I’m not actually answering your question but after years of climbing with 60m ropes, we noticed that Needlesports sell ropes 25m and 30m long. We often use our new 30m ropes which are so much more convenient in many scenarios. 

Whilst I would normally tie in as a second before the leader sets off, in this case that seems like a waste of time unless I'm missing something. The middle "end" of the rope can't accidentally pass the belay device so the second can just tie into the end that's dropped.

You can do a massive doubled rethreaded figure eight quite easily with small half ropes and I do this quite a lot and take one rope when doing gritstone single pitch stuff where the protection can move a lot. But as has already been said, it's not possible for the rope to run through the plate, tying in before you set off is superfluous. 

However, in truth I've never really needed more than the available rope to the leader to build a belay and I'm not sure your scenario isn't slightly contrived. If your pitch is 15 m and you're doubling a 60, assuming you lose five in the seconds knot and perhaps a bit of wandering gear you still have 10 m worth of rope to reach any theoretical anchors, maybe even another 5 if the second just walks a bit closer to the route.

If you're imagining some kind of boulder behind the pitch, it could be easier to just take a massive sling.

Probably even easier is buying a cheap 30 saving the wear on your half ropes. It's not like it needs to be dry treated.

At the risk of sounding facetious, the best way to use a doubled 60m rope as two 30m halves is "only when there is no doubt that 30m is sufficient".

As for tying in the middle, I prefer a rethreaded double fig8, but a rethreaded overhanded finished with a locker is also very good. A good alternative for routes that don't involve long traverses is for the second to girth hitch to the rope by threading the loop down through their harness, steeping into the loop created and then bring this up their back and over their head. Very quick and minimal rope used. 

Good luck

I agree the girth hitch method is a good one and one I’ve used, but I’m curious as to why you think traverses are an issue when using it?

Some might say lead on both ends and second on the Chris Tan Death Knot.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/half_rope_-_tying_in_question-1...

Agree for single pitch climbs.

However initial tying in would be useful on a multipitch with shortish pitches quoted as say 25m where  more rope was unexpectedly needed, especially likely after the last pitch. This appeals to me as I can argue that I'll be happy to compromise by using half rope technique rather than single, but we'll still be OK if we take one half rope and 30m is unexpectedly insufficient. Less weight to lug to climb and overall less faff especially as the extra length would usually not be required.

Thanks. Nice to know that others appreciate the absurdity of lugging and handling 120m when it's not necessary.

However in my case we already have underused 60m halves available which we don't wish to cut. When I buy a new rope it will probably be a triple certified 50m. As I get older I get increasingly grumpy about carrying masses of rope and enormous amounts of protection which is never used. Restrictive and spoils the fun.

I'm sure it is the ideal way. However as I replied to another post there are two underused 60m ropes available which aren't going to get cut. At present I wouldn't want to spend cash on two 30m halves which again would be underused. The OP was really about a situation where was a "degree of uncertainty" rather than"no doubt" and how to make that uncertainty safe.

Especially applicable to more rope being needed once easy ground was reached. Cattle Troughs at Swanage might be an example where some stakes are a fair way back and I prefer to come back down from the anchor to be able to communicate with the second.

That's great for second to tie on, however probably more faff if more rope is required while leading/anchoring.......though admittedly that situation is ideally avoided.

I have a morbid fear of traverses in general. But, specifically, I worry that there's a chance of the hitch loosening and sliding one way or another. I presume that friction makes this very unlikely, but didn't want to recommend it! When I learnt the technique from a certain purveyor of Death Products (TM), I was warned to avoid using the GH on traverses and I prefer not to test the theory!

In such a circumstance (happens in some of the bigger grit quarries and crags with belays well back) just drop one end (that's the less important one to protect the second) and let the second pull it through and tie on the dropped end). Tbh if you know you need a good bit more than 30m on the half rope to set up the belay just use two ropes.

Thanks - that makes sense

Lead on the ends and second on a death knot. 

Thats what I normally do with my usual climbing partners on smaller crags, single pitch. 

Has the advantage of being able to drop one end if neccessary. Using more of one rope half than the other for an extended belay . Having the doubled end at the bottom means the leader cannot be dropped as the middle / bottom cannot pass the belay plate. The rope can be equalised by the second before setting off. I usually just let the rope stay in the plate, maybe adding a double overhand stopper if the load is likely  on one rope. My mate usually  ties in with a fig8 and krab.

Yeah, this.  Why make it more complicated?

Lots of <50ft routes where I climb, so use a doubled half regularly.  Always lead on ends so you can drop one if it gets stuck. I tie into the middle as a second with a bowline using the doubled rope and the end clipped into something.