/ At what point is it wise to give up on a 'siege'

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jackob 19 Mar 2020

How many sessions do people think is too many for sieging (redpointing) a route/boulder.  Currently im up to around 7 sessions for the boulder im trying and 12/13 for the route. I feel like im making steady progress on both however im wondering if it is time to give it a break and try something different, however i hate giving up on something once ive started it!

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Sans-Plan 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

42

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jackob 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Sans-Plan:

There is always one isnt there.

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Sans-Plan 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Sorry, couldn't resist, however i find these sort of questions pretty unanswerable really, its personal, if you think its too much or too little then that's all that matters. 

You say you hate giving up on things once you have started so just keep going until you finish it, personally i would have got bored by the amount of time you have tried and moved on to something else.

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tmawer 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Are you still enjoying the process, if so then I guess it makes sense to keep going. If the only pleasure will come from eventual success and there is no pleasure left in the trying hard, perhaps it's time to move on. The motivating factor seems important. Have fun whatever road you take,

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BrendanO 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

I had never projected anything until last year, and my standard is very low. However, last year I had about 10 visits to a local crag, finally toproping then leading clean on the same day. First time I'd got that grade outdoors.

i think you almost answer the question yourself - you could take a break then go back when/if you feel like it. And subject to covid19 restrictions.

Enjoy it, or stop for a bit. And good luck!

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In reply to jackob:

For me, if I'm making progress and still enjoying it then I keep going.  If I've lost psyche or not making any progress for several sessions then I sack it off for a while.

Sometimes a break for a few months then going back to it makes a difference - you notice something you didn't before.  I think of these as one to go back for rather than one I've failed on.

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MischaHY 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

If it's taking a long time it's likely because you're needing to make strength or endurance gains along the way. If trying the project keeps you psyched for it, then this is good training - but try and analyse what the weak link is and how it could be trained separately. 

If the issue is strength/power related, consider that this will take much longer to improve and you might be best placed doing a few weeks of specific training and using your climbing time to enjoy other, more moderate routes/boulders to keep things fresh. If it's fitness and you're making longer links every session, keep going! 

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Rigid Raider 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

I clicked on this thread thinking it was something to do with teenage sex. 

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Jon Greengrass 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Number of attempts would not be how I decided to give up on a siege. I would stop at the point that I was failing at the same high point for 2 sessions in a row or found myself unable to make progress on longer links on higher sections on the route.  At this point I would put the redpoint on hold while I trained to get stronger, fitter and  more flexible.

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Dave Garnett 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

If you can't do anything after three attempts it's too hard for you.  Unless you are proper climbing, in which case it's two attempts (or one if you are going to brag about it) 

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steveriley 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

I'm on 8 years at the moment - does that help?

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jkarran 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

If you're enjoying it, your sequence/strength/fitness is improving through the process the keep at it. It's a hobby, if it stops being fun or interesting, stop doing it.

That said, if you haven't done all the moves and some big links at a dozen sessions I'd think about taking a break, coming back fresh with new skills and or fitness in the future.

jk

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johncook 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Ask Steve McClure?

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krikoman 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

2, then I give up and save it for a later date.

That's just me though, I'd much rather on-sight something, so I'll have a couple of goes, give up and try again later.

Broken Crack is an example for me, three or four attempts over a number of years, and I've still got to lead it clean.

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The Jazz Butcher 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

I tried a route on and off over 20 years before being successful. Over that time I probably spent at least 40 days in total and over 100 redpoint attempts.

Success was brought about by a change in training, well, actually doing some training!

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DubyaJamesDubya 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

If you are making progress I would say keep going as long as it takes. It's that sort of problem I enjoy the most.

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ChrisJD 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

A biking equivalent here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ_1DSO0OXE

Took him 36 goes to do a never-done-before-trick.  Mesmerising to watch. Would have been cool if 42 was the number though!

And it took 8 years for Dan Fisher to get the hardest trad route in Aus

So just HOW much do you want to do it?

Perhaps consider getting some coaching to help you break the impasse?

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nniff 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> If you can't do anything after three attempts it's too hard for you.  Unless you are proper climbing, in which case it's two attempts (or one if you are going to brag about it) 

My philosophy too.   If I want to waste time, there's always Netflix.

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UKB Shark 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Seiging isn’t everybody’s cup of tea but if you want to climb at your genuine limit then that’s what you have to do. 

If (as you say you are) you are making steady progress on both and are still psyched then keep at it. When you stop making progress do something else and maybe some specific training and go back and try again. 

To quote Nic Sellars if you are into double figures of days on your project then stop counting.

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DubyaJamesDubya 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> If you can't do anything after three attempts it's too hard for you.  Unless you are proper climbing, in which case it's two attempts (or one if you are going to brag about it) 

If you were talking about a route you'd wanted to onsight I'd say fair enough but if it's a boulder problem or red/head point then its a bit different. Alex Honnold seems to have done a bit of 'proper climbing' recently that required more than two goes to get right.

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barry donovan 20 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

Are you enjoying it ?  

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Dave Garnett 20 Mar 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> If you were talking about a route you'd wanted to onsight I'd say fair enough but if it's a boulder problem or red/head point then its a bit different. Alex Honnold seems to have done a bit of 'proper climbing' recently that required more than two goes to get right.

I wasn't being entirely serious, but I do have a pretty low boredom threshold.  

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Offwidth 20 Mar 2020
In reply to UKB Shark:

I sieged a mega stamina bouldering travese at the local Lady Bay outdoor centre for about 6 months ..maybe 50 serious sessions. I'm glad I stayed psyched as the week after I succeeded they took it down!

How many sessions  on the Oak now? 

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Iamgregp 20 Mar 2020
In reply to jackob:

 I'll maybe spend an afternoon redpointing something if outdoor, indoor I might give something 4-5 goes over a couple of sessions.

After that I get a bit bored and would rather go try something else, but I'm not massively into redpointing.... Think I have a short attention span.

Here's some food for thought though.  Say you find a nice route that suits your style and is graded a couple of notches up from what you've ever achieved previously.  You give it a couple of goes and can just about stick some of the moves bolt to bolt. 

You've got a choice of trying this repeatedly over the next few weeks, making incremental progress until it goes, or sacking it off after a few tries and climbing a load of different hard, but not as hard routes of all types of styles.

After those few weeks which of these choices will have made you the better climber?  For some it's the choice of the redpoint and getting the high grade tick, for others it's the more routes and styles.

Each to their own....  

My thought is that the best approach is something that's a mix of these two approaches - Some redpointing but not to the point that progress on one route affects general overall progress. 

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