UKC

At the castle they have some boulders where you can traverse round them but i was wondering how good this actually is as a substitute for building stamina on a wall? Bearing in mind i may not have a partner/time to do rope work.

what does everyone think?

In reply to adderz: Are you able to add up and down bits into the traverse? That would help.

A good stamina exercise is to go up a medium dificulty problem, down easy Etc to make up a twenty or thirty move circuit. Rest for 5 mins then repeat until sick.

In reply to Richard Bradley:


don't like the sound of that! can't add up and down bits as they're literally only high enough to go sideways.

is traversing in itself a good way to build stamina though?

In reply to adderz: I tend to use the boulder traverses for warming down at the end of a session. They have a route with wooden holds which is great after a hard session as its nice and soft on your fingers. I have been trying to do every route in one push on the boulders but havent managed to finish it yet. Obviously the main problem with stamina training is that other people want to use it too, so you end up having to make awkward rests while you wait for other people to proceed. I like to use the fake sandstone wall for training as you get a small rest after topping out and walking back round while keeping active. Another good stamina test is traversing the upstairs boulder wall but can obviously only be attempted on a quiet day.

yeh i think they're quite good for that. i usually warm up and down on them
i try and go round on 3 easy problems then push for 2 hard ones at the end. as long as you don't jump off the second you're pumped its going to benefit your stamina
i don't think it will directly improve your performance on vertical overhanging walls though, so i'd try and get on some of the problems in the mezz (think its called that). try downclimbing them as well

In reply to adderz:


I know that crabs swear by it.

In reply to deacondeacon:

that's a good idea, i'll give that a go next time i go.

surely being able to do that will convert into better 'proper' climbing won't it?

In reply to adderz: Yeah hopefully, it seems like a much more logical way of doing it than going up and down constantly. I find it more interesting than doing circuits on a flat wall.

In reply to deacondeacon:

the thing is, climbing endurance is movement specific, so if you spend lots of time building endurance going round and round and round and round, you will get very good at traversing endlessly, but not going up and down. Whereas if you do circuits that incorporate up and down as well as traversing, you will work the whole lot.

That is the theory, I think, though in practice traversing is probably better than nothing, and there aren't so many walls at the castle where you can do effective stamina circuits.

In reply to adderz:

i use them as a bit of a warm up 2 or 3 times around on what everholds. they are great for getting a bit of a pump on before going and doing some leading or bouldering.....not sure that they are great problems in and of themselves.

In reply to adderz:

Yeah, I think they are good for warming up, and if you use them properly then can be effective stamina training (with the caveat that you are likely to have to do some awkward rests!)

After warming up pick a problem that you can get round once with only a mild pump, and see how many times you can do it consecutively. This will definitely build your forearm stamina, and personally I think that this will be specific enough to transfer into long route stamina. Same muscles, same function.

In reply to adderz: i think they do have good application potential.Good for contact strength in your fingers,can improve footwork etc etc.In the 1980s and early 90s some of our best climbers based alot of their training on them.
Phil Davidson,Joe healy(pex hill)Tony Mitchell,Rob Gawthorpe(leeds wall+alma road)Dave Kenyon(Clitheroe castle!?)Neil Carson,Ian Vickers(craig Y longridge)Jerry Moffat(fingerblock trav-collegiate crescent)+many others etc etc.
If you depend on the setting on walls well they may or may not hit the 'right note' you want.Look around don'nt concentrate on one wall (or one form of training for that matter).

In reply to RockSteady:

thats what i was thinking! surely getting a good pump and constantly being able to hold on for longer and do harder problems for a greater duration of time will convert into being able to hold on for longer on a route?
there must be someone on here who knows the benefits of endless traversing!

In reply to adderz:

Its very good for building aerobic capacity. In a climbing wall there is really no other way to climb continually for 40 mins to an hour, ideally with out getting a pump. (However getting a slight pump through a crux and recovering on the move isn't a disaster). This builds up the blood supply to the climbing musscels and thus your areobic cappacity. It doesn't extend the time you can climb untill pumped but rather delays the point at which pump starts to build.


If you have to stop to let other people make moves then either switch possitions to aliviate the pump or learn to find the resting position on those holds. ARC is about the easiest thing to do on a busy wall if the level is right you can stop and wait at almost all points (and shouldn't get caught on the few you can't). While being dealyed doesn't matter much.

In reply to davidwright:

in a nut shell you think its a good alternative to building stamina which can be converted to better wall climbing?

In reply to adderz:

>there must be someone on here who knows the benefits of endless traversing!

Neil Gresham is quite anti. His training recommendation to intermediate climbing is to ditch the traversing in favour of doing laps on routes. I am not sure exactly why, but I assume it's to do with specificity.

In reply to adderz:

I think it's fair to say that some of the best boulder problems are traverses. And the best place for traversing boulder problems is Almscliff.

In reply to adderz:I believe there is a specific benefit as it is a convenient way of training a form of recovery endurance(that is training contact in climbing) thats hard to fine tune on indoor rts sometimes-bit anti social as well possibly.Its not perfect traversing in terms of pure imitation of a goal(not enough multiangled walls around to do it on) and its sometimes hard to do indoors nowadays but its a realy good way of training as it trains the body and mind for that 12,20,60(!)mins on the rock or whereever+it helps you learn how to try to recover etc etc.

In reply to adderz:

Do you do laps on a route for 40 mins without putting your foot on the floor? If you don't then traversing for that length of time will produce more benifits than lapping. You will see rapid improvement in your ability to climb for long periods at first but to see the benifit in terms of less pump on routes will take a couple of months. The addaptations are deep, slow to develop and long lasting.

In reply to davidwright:

do you train via traversing?

In reply to adderz:

Warm ups + warm downs (including the odd hardish line to start pulling hard), ARC sessions yes. To be honest I can't see how you can do a realistic stamina set unless you do and only then if you have access to an endless traverse like the castle boulders. I suspect that for most people who claim to use ciruits for "stamina" training then "stamina" means a 3 or 4 minuite effort. Lapping on routes can be better but again I think an effort of 15-20 mins max is most usual.

In reply to adderz: just link lots of easy boulder problems in a row. Traversing is quite specific in terms of movements etc. If you want to substitute climbing longer routes, linking problems is more specific.

In reply to fred_stone:

The Key part of an ARC session on an endless traverse is that you do not put your foot on the floor for 40 minutes to an hour. You don't get that total duration in the absence of rest by linking problems. You are trying to build a set of capacities in the muscle groups used for climbing which revolve around the ability of the muscles to utilise 02 and the ability of the cardio-vascular system to supply it. As the muscle blocks used are more or less the same that capability will transfer. However if you take the load away for portions of the session even the 10-15 seconds it takes to move from one problem to another reduces the efectivness of the session.

In reply to adderz:

Is very good for endurance but very bad for elbows take care!I popped my elbow (tendonitis) and was out for 2 years!!

In reply to davidwright:

Agree totally. When I can find the time I traverse back and forth on my (very slightly overhanging) garden wall with moves sustained at about English 5b/5c and seem to get significant training benefits from 'resting' in difficult positions without touching the floor. I think the static 'resting' is probably more beneficial to hard trad - and possibly onsighting stamina sport routes - than the actual climbing in between. So the fact that the moves are horizontal doesn't mean it's a waste of time. Probably best mixed with some up and down though.

In reply to Brian H: I concur as well.The specificity of the movement is just less important than the contact time while climbing-if basic endurance is what you want to build.As long as you can vary your training/climbing then traversing like you describe is a totally valuable component...Over specificity in climbing movement(especailly when it derives itself in 'comp' style problems at modern walls) is over valued specailly when applied to the needs of the general climbing population(climbing VS-E2?).Quality volume,apropriate technique training (and then confronting weakness's-mental and physical) these are the best methods as initial way forward.

In reply to witnessthis:
And a number of those you mention have given up climbing because of serious injury! Not totally due to traversing, granted. But be warned that hard traversing (ie English 6a and above) puts a lot of strain on the fingers, elbows and shoulders and the technique is not always transferable to vertical routes.

In reply to Pekkie: Agreed overtraining can damage your health!Variety is the best way to avoid injury(or periodising your climbing/training if you want to give it a technical term).Back then this concept was in its infancy I think.By the way most of the above still climb i think.