UKC

Hello,

Recently I've got issue with Petzl carabiners I've got hard time to unscrew them couple of times.

So I am thinking maybe to change them for some others. Grivel's twin-gate seems to be good option.

Do you good experience with Grivel's twin-gate carabiners?

Did you got ever issue with screw gate carabiners ... (Unscrewing especially)? How to maintain them to keep them in good condition?

Hey! I'd stick to screwgates if I were you - Grivel's Twin Gates are pretty gimmicky imo, are a pain to open, and most folk that I climb with aren't particularly keen on them (in fact, the only person I know who used one used it as a key chain to store keys) so might not be the biggest fan if you have loads on your rack. Other twist lock/triple action autolocking krabs are popular for some things like lanyards, but they're expensive and more prone to freezing up than screwgates.

Occasinally screwgates can get a bit welded but it's never too bad to undo them in my experience, especially with Petzl and DMM ones - although I think there was an issue with camp screwgates a while ago where the threads were very very close together, so when loaded in a certain way, they could essentially become cross threaded and therefore stuck. My flatmate ended up having to bash someones open with a rock which is a little suboptimal, but aside from that I've never had any issues. 

Maintence wise - I've never really stressed too much about them. If they're really grimey and gunky, perhaps give them a wash with some water and maybe a spray of WD40.

I've read somewhere that WD40 dissolves nylon. I don't know if that's true or not.

Are you screwing them up under load then trying to unscrew them unloaded?

I'd have to disagree with Oscar and his mates, the Grivel twin gate is exactly what I use to get around the problem you describe. 

I have some screwgate biners that were particularly prone to freezing shut in certain conditions and they were a pain to undo. I had to remove a glove, warm the biner with my hand, undo it and Dry it inside my jacket. Inconvenient and my hands got properly cold.

If the twin gate were to freeze shut, I'd open it with a pick in a few seconds.

It's very much not true.

Ice climbing down to about -25 I've never found it that hard to unfreeze any screwgate by just blowing on it with my glove cupped behind. 

Don't blow down ice screws though by putting your lips on the end unless your happy to leave some layers of lip skin stuck to the screw!

It's not at -25 were I have had the problem, for me it happens when it's close to freezing with moist humid air

That's a relief! I have used it on my gear (cams and screwgates), always wiping it as much as I could, but always been a bit paranoid about it touching my harness or quickdraws afterwards.

I was about to post I've got some grivel twin gates and find them an absolute bloody nightmare to use in winter with gloves on (tbh i think thete a gimmickysoultion to a non existent problem).  perhaps I just have fat fingers.

No ... That's not the case.

Maybe I shouldn't screw them totally to the end? 

Screw gates - when you are screwing them up on a belay etc. make sure they are orientated so the screw goes 'down hill' when you are screwing it closed. Gravity will help keep it in place.

(I've probably explained that really badly so if anyone can see what I mean but explain better please feel free!)

I've also heard putting a smidge of vaseline on the screw thread helps, but have no idea if it does or indeed, from a chemical point of view, this is a good idea or not. 

Yep 👍... That's what I'm always doing

It seems that some people love them and some hate

I was using them before but my partner went always mad when he was forced to dismantle belay post

I find Petzl crabs are more prone to jamming or freezing compared to similar shaped ones from DMM (they're the only two brands on my work rack for direct comparison). 

I get round this by taking extra spare snap gates for belay building in the winter and only use screw gates for direct connection to anchors and belay plates etc. Back to back snap gates can also be used for extra security in some situations you might ordinarily use a locking crab.

Make sure they're not fully loaded when you screw them up and not cranked really tight. The thimble on a crab is just for extra security and doesn't make it stronger if rotated tighter. 

Some days, anything you use will freeze and you just have to make do the best you can. A touch of cam lube/GT85/WD40 will help. 

I've used the twin gate Grivels and they're a giant faff in the summer, let alone with gloves on, in the winter. A clever idea, but I can't stand them! 

There were definitely issues with Petzl carabiners (Attache and Spirit and maybe other models) from a few years ago.  They could freeze in the locked position.  There were all sorts of theories about closing them more tightly or less tightly, with weighting or without weighting, using lubrication or not, temperature, humidity, and so on, but nobody really got to the bottom of it, and there was no explanation from Petzl.  You can probabky find some of the threads on MP.  There were some cases where people had to cut slings or webbing to free themselves from belays, etc.  I wouldn't have beleived it until it happened to me, on a dry, warm day.  It seems pretty rare, and I like the red safety indicators, so I still have my whole lot of Petzl carabiners, and I use them regularly, including for ice climbing.  If I could buy them again I'd probably go with a different brand.  The equivalent from CAMP are really nice, and of course DMM is the gold standard for quality. 

Exactly that. And you can't get enough grip on the screw lock. It's the same for a range of brands & It got so bad last winter I went searching for some with a less fine knurl on the screw lock, but found them all to be similar. 

Only answer (without bare hands) is to try and breathe a lot of warm air and rub furiously to get heat them up with friction.

Dumb question possibly (not a winter climber) - but could you put a bit of rubber sleeving over the screw lock to make it a bit easier to grip?

This kind of thing for example: https://hilltop-products.co.uk/cable-sleeving-protection/rubber-tubing/neop...

You generally shouldn’t, on any screwgate. It’s not just winter that causes a problem there, they can end up *royally* stuck with heat too.

I'm sure it's not, but it's hard to imagine it being good for it either. Certainly when spraying cams I always try to avoid the slings.

Yann Camus has made some specifically for screw gate locks

https://blissclimbingtech.com/gate-bumper-and-spine-bumper/

They're made to stop strange loading of devices but would work to help undo them too. 

And yes, Petzl Attache's can be a pain if they're tightened too tight. only ever do them up lightly and you shouldn't go wrong. I don't think it's a freezing thing as we've played around with them. In fact a guide was trying to show a trick to undo them and proceeded to get one so stuck it took an hour to open it (on the ground, in the warm, using tools)

In damp conditions where things are freezing up.like you describe, simply don't screw up the gate, you don't have to.

If you find the gate or barrel has frozen shut a little percussive maintenance will free it.

Translated: bang it on a rock?

I am now about to switch to DMM or Grivel ... I've got too much issue with Petzl. Too much beating against the rock even on warm dry day.

Do DMM carabiners have also this nice red mark for visual check like Petzl? This I like a lot.

The Grivel twin gate belay krab is brilliant, especially for winter climbing and wearing big gloves. Less convinced for normal use as they’re a real pain if not oriented the right way. 
 

as far as regular screwgates are concerned, don’t do them up tight and tighten them even less if they’re being tightened when loaded.  Most of the time, I just check to see what the failure mechanism is that would open the gate and if there isn’t one I don’t do the screw up. 

They don't - possibly a Petzl patent? But if you've a favourite nail polish...

Several of the CAMP and Edelrid carabiners also have the red indicator.  I like it.

I have very few red lines when it comes to climbing partners, but being in possession of Gravel twin gates is one of them!

Isn't there two different designs though, the one with the mini wire gate quite easy to use and the one with the identical alloy wedge shaped gates impossible?

I don't know, I just believe fairly strongly that I shouldn't have to "work out" how to use a carabiner...

I seem to recall DMM having anti locking seals in the collars of some of their krabs to prevent over tightening (eg. the Boa). Although I don’t know where I read this, but I’ve not managed to over tighten any of mine. I don’t really do any maintenance on them either. And I’ve had some for 10+ years. 

Silicon spray, wax, or even cucumber juice (hydrophobic) on the threads works well. 

For a technically minded chap as yourself (as opposed to a fluffy social "scientist" such as myself) I can't imagine that it takes much working out to use this https://grivel.com/products/lambda-k7g I hasten to add, I haven't used one, so don't know if they're any good or not but they look simple enough to use. 

I tried them in a shop and realised they would be horrible to use.

WARNING: Grit sticks to oil (i.e. WD40). Cam (or mountain bike) "wax" - grit falls off.

I have had to remove a screwgate from a bolt belay. Clearly somebody put a lot of load on it and then had done the gate up. Both feet on the rock and pull like crazy to undo the screw.

Haven't tried it recently, but with old snap krabs, bodyweight was enough to stop them opening!

You mean MTB chain lube?

It would make sense you also need chain on MTB free of drit

I've used twin gates caving as I got annoyed at my lockers seizing up with the sheer amount of mud. People who ended up with my carabiner hate them but now I've got used to it I'm faster with a twin gate than a screw gate. The only issue with twin gates is that if you cross load the gate over an edge theoretically the gates may open. As long as there's no rock to open the gates there as secure as any other locking carabiner. I'm yet to use in winter ice but I have used in thick mud and it works really well. To the point that my next winter biners will probably be twin gates. 

I’m not sure about those as ‘normal screwgates’ but as a belay krab, these are very, very good. https://grivel.com/products/clepsydra-l-k10g?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_r....

Your behind is clearly far more skilled than mine! That must be quite a trick….

b

with gloves on?

ben b -  

especially with gloves on, as the ‘hook’ formed when you push the outer gate outwards makes it easy to catch the rope, even when it’s buried beneath a big duvet jacket, plus a big fat gloved finger doesn’t get in the way of the gate, plus you don’t have to try and open or close a screw with a frozen glove.  
 

the ‘keeper’ keeps it oriented and is easy to unclip with a gloved hand.
 

Even easier in the summer.

the only downside is a name that sounds like a nasty STD 

I suspect there will be footage of this on some far off, highly specialised and unsavoury corner of the web.

I for one will not be searching for your glove cupped behind…!

b

Hi! I’ve had a similar experience with screw gate carabiners before, especially in conditions where dirt or moisture gets into the threads. Regular maintenance can really help. Try cleaning them with warm water and a soft brush to remove any debris, then apply a bit of lubricant like WD40 or a climbing-specific product to keep the threads moving smoothly.

As for Grivel’s twin gate carabiners, I’ve used them and found them to be a great alternative. They completely eliminate the issue of stuck screws and are pretty easy to use once you get the hang of the locking mechanism. It might take a little practice at first, but they’re super reliable and need very little maintenance. If you’re thinking of switching, I’d say they’re definitely worth a tr

I seem to recall being told - probably on UKC - that, technically, WD40 isn't a lubricant.