This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Just wondering if anyone use any of the following techniques or similar when placing screws?
If so do you use the technique the majority of the time or just at tricky placements?
I personaly havent tried out any techniques other than getting myself into a comfy well balance position and placing a screw one handed.
Any opinions on possible flaws?
These are copy and pasted from another site.
With regard to placing ice screws on steep ice. A method I use is to bury one axe high and hang straight armed from it. Place the other axe deep and slightly lower, place the rope over the head of this axe to give temporary protection, remove your wrist from the loop of this axe and place the screw just above waist level. This saves having to mess about with additional carabiners etc. and is very quick. Even if a carabiner is clipped for greater security it is worth considering doing this in the first instance.
and
find a good resting/placing stance.
make a bomber placement high left hand
clean ice with the right hand, hip height
make a bomber placement middle height right hand (in a place where it does not interfere with the screw placement)
take the right hand off the wrist loop (use the Simond wrist loop or your teeth to open the wrist loop)
grab a quickdraw with bent-gate biner, and clip to right tool
clip the rope
grab a screw (easier when they are carried on a large clearance biner)
place the screw (need a BD screw or equivalent). If more chopping of the ice needs to be done to allow the screw to rotate, then the third tool has to be used.
move the quickdraw to the screw
replace your right hand into the wrist loop, close it with your teeth (if not using the Simond)and climb !
Discuss?
If so do you use the technique the majority of the time or just at tricky placements?
I personaly havent tried out any techniques other than getting myself into a comfy well balance position and placing a screw one handed.
Any opinions on possible flaws?
These are copy and pasted from another site.
With regard to placing ice screws on steep ice. A method I use is to bury one axe high and hang straight armed from it. Place the other axe deep and slightly lower, place the rope over the head of this axe to give temporary protection, remove your wrist from the loop of this axe and place the screw just above waist level. This saves having to mess about with additional carabiners etc. and is very quick. Even if a carabiner is clipped for greater security it is worth considering doing this in the first instance.
and
find a good resting/placing stance.
make a bomber placement high left hand
clean ice with the right hand, hip height
make a bomber placement middle height right hand (in a place where it does not interfere with the screw placement)
take the right hand off the wrist loop (use the Simond wrist loop or your teeth to open the wrist loop)
grab a quickdraw with bent-gate biner, and clip to right tool
clip the rope
grab a screw (easier when they are carried on a large clearance biner)
place the screw (need a BD screw or equivalent). If more chopping of the ice needs to be done to allow the screw to rotate, then the third tool has to be used.
move the quickdraw to the screw
replace your right hand into the wrist loop, close it with your teeth (if not using the Simond)and climb !
Discuss?
In reply to vincentvega:
Possibly the single most useful thing you can do to speed up the whole process is to invest in a good clipper leash system. Or go leashless; for me the time saved negates the need to faff about swopping quickdraws over.
Possibly the single most useful thing you can do to speed up the whole process is to invest in a good clipper leash system. Or go leashless; for me the time saved negates the need to faff about swopping quickdraws over.
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
I agree with you here Jamie, I have never been pumped or struggled placing screws since I went leashless
I agree with you here Jamie, I have never been pumped or struggled placing screws since I went leashless
In reply to vincentvega:
even with leashless, would you consider the 1st option for tempory protection until youve clipped your screw?
even with leashless, would you consider the 1st option for tempory protection until youve clipped your screw?
In reply to vincentvega:
Not when climbing on a single, I wouldn't.
> Ju place the rope over the head of this axe to give temporary protection,
Not when climbing on a single, I wouldn't.
In reply to vincentvega: Not sure I would have the time or inclination to read this 50 page instruction manual when placing an ice-screw on steep or vertical ground.
How about having your axes tied from the axe-base to your harness with long 5mm cord, place one tool bomber then lower slightly to the end of the cord. Then place the other. Then put the ice-screw in with one hand if you can, both if not, re-engage the axes and away you go.
Helps to have clipper leashes to do this. Personally I really do not like the idea of leashless axes as watching one or both axes hurtling toward my second would leave him cross and me terrified. Clippers on the other hand work just fine, provided the axes are secured by the additional lines, which don't get in the way when swinging the axes.
How about having your axes tied from the axe-base to your harness with long 5mm cord, place one tool bomber then lower slightly to the end of the cord. Then place the other. Then put the ice-screw in with one hand if you can, both if not, re-engage the axes and away you go.
Helps to have clipper leashes to do this. Personally I really do not like the idea of leashless axes as watching one or both axes hurtling toward my second would leave him cross and me terrified. Clippers on the other hand work just fine, provided the axes are secured by the additional lines, which don't get in the way when swinging the axes.
In reply to vincentvega:
I use the old Charlet Moser Axar with the standard leashes. Just keep the leash loops a bit loose so that I can get my hand in and out easily once the axes are secured onto the wall (but not too loose that it will drop off from my wrists unintentionally). Worked for me. Almost as convenient as leashless on ice although it doesn't work on mixed when the axe is not held in place.
When placing the screws I will first chop a small hole on the ice (and flatten the surroundings) about my chin level, push the screw against the screw with my chin and rotate it until it bites. Doesn't look elegant I know. However I've tried the standard method at waist level and found it a bit fiddly if the screw doesn't bite with the first one or two push. Also a bit awkward to use the axe that low if more chopping is needed.
I use the old Charlet Moser Axar with the standard leashes. Just keep the leash loops a bit loose so that I can get my hand in and out easily once the axes are secured onto the wall (but not too loose that it will drop off from my wrists unintentionally). Worked for me. Almost as convenient as leashless on ice although it doesn't work on mixed when the axe is not held in place.
When placing the screws I will first chop a small hole on the ice (and flatten the surroundings) about my chin level, push the screw against the screw with my chin and rotate it until it bites. Doesn't look elegant I know. However I've tried the standard method at waist level and found it a bit fiddly if the screw doesn't bite with the first one or two push. Also a bit awkward to use the axe that low if more chopping is needed.
In reply to Simon4:
I personaly wouldnt feel comfertable hanging from my axes none handed whilst placing a screw as you describe. With the axes being attached to your harness via cord, when weighted the axes could possibly lift and pop out as the point of connection to the axe is at the base.
> How about having your axes tied from the axe-base to your harness with long 5mm cord, place one tool bomber then lower slightly to the end of the cord. Then place the other. Then put the ice-screw in with one hand if you can, both if not, re-engage the axes and away you go.
I personaly wouldnt feel comfertable hanging from my axes none handed whilst placing a screw as you describe. With the axes being attached to your harness via cord, when weighted the axes could possibly lift and pop out as the point of connection to the axe is at the base.
In reply to vincentvega:
The Plan is usually is this (bearing in mind that PLans are subject to change).
Split ice pitches into climbing zones and protection zones as far as possible. A protection zone will offer some solid looking ice and some easing of the angle or a bridging position to take some of the strain off. Climb towards your next protection zone and as you near it try to spot where the screw will go. Clear any ice that needs to be cleared from that spot and put a small dink into it with one axe, as a starter hole for the screw. Climb past until the dink is at waist level.
If the plan is working, this dink is in the right position for you to place a screw. If it's not, try to make another one if balance allows. Place both axes well, so that you can take either hand off to rest. If panicking, put a cow's tail and fifi into one axe.
Place a screw, clip, and look for the next protection zone and go.
No hanging around - climbing zone or protection zone, not both. If this is typical Scottish scratching around then all plans are abandoned as a matter of course and it's a free for all for any gear that presents itself, or not.
The Plan is usually is this (bearing in mind that PLans are subject to change).
Split ice pitches into climbing zones and protection zones as far as possible. A protection zone will offer some solid looking ice and some easing of the angle or a bridging position to take some of the strain off. Climb towards your next protection zone and as you near it try to spot where the screw will go. Clear any ice that needs to be cleared from that spot and put a small dink into it with one axe, as a starter hole for the screw. Climb past until the dink is at waist level.
If the plan is working, this dink is in the right position for you to place a screw. If it's not, try to make another one if balance allows. Place both axes well, so that you can take either hand off to rest. If panicking, put a cow's tail and fifi into one axe.
Place a screw, clip, and look for the next protection zone and go.
No hanging around - climbing zone or protection zone, not both. If this is typical Scottish scratching around then all plans are abandoned as a matter of course and it's a free for all for any gear that presents itself, or not.
In reply to vincentvega:
You carry a third tool!? Is that, like, SOOooooo 1980s?
I presumed that if a bit of ice is getting in the way of the final twist of the screw most people would do what I do which is to swear a lot and smack the crap out the hanger of the screw with their hand and until it goes past the blockage. This can hurt but you can worry about that tomorrow.
> If more chopping of the ice needs to be done to allow the screw to rotate, then the third tool has to be used.
You carry a third tool!? Is that, like, SOOooooo 1980s?
I presumed that if a bit of ice is getting in the way of the final twist of the screw most people would do what I do which is to swear a lot and smack the crap out the hanger of the screw with their hand and until it goes past the blockage. This can hurt but you can worry about that tomorrow.
In reply to vincentvega:
Not if the axe is firmly placed before doing this. The weighting on the axe will pull the pick further into the ice, not cause it to pop.
> With the axes being attached to your harness via cord, when weighted the axes could possibly lift and pop out as the point of connection to the axe is at the base.
Not if the axe is firmly placed before doing this. The weighting on the axe will pull the pick further into the ice, not cause it to pop.
In reply to TobyA: That sounds like my technique! Particularly the swearing. After all, it is a truth universally acknowledged that there is no problem with a piece of climbing gear that cannot be eased by copious and blasphemous profanity.
In any case, you will already have 95-98% of the full screw security by that point so if it the screw really can't be pushed past the offending lump of ice, just clip it anyway.
I always find the difficulty is getting the threads of the screw to bite initially, once that is done, screwing it in further is normally straightforward with modern handled screws.
In any case, you will already have 95-98% of the full screw security by that point so if it the screw really can't be pushed past the offending lump of ice, just clip it anyway.
I always find the difficulty is getting the threads of the screw to bite initially, once that is done, screwing it in further is normally straightforward with modern handled screws.
In reply to TobyA:
Not my words!!
> (In reply to vincentvega)
> [...]
>
> You carry a third tool!? Is that, like, SOOooooo 1980s?
> [...]
>
> You carry a third tool!? Is that, like, SOOooooo 1980s?
Not my words!!
In reply to Simon4:
I'll tell the girls over coffee at work on monday that I ice climb to commune with nature and there is a tranquillity and oneness that comes from it which is close to zen like. They seem to dig this.
Of course really it's a heady mixture of panic, blind fury, barely controlled aggression, and fear that you're about to die. If many of us still had a reasonable expectation of being conscripted into a active military where bayonets were routinely used, I'm sure ice climbing as a concept would not occur to many.
Of course that won't impress the chicks though, at least not the type I know who all seem to do yoga...
> Particularly the swearing. After all, it is a truth universally acknowledged that there is no problem with a piece of climbing gear that cannot be eased by copious and blasphemous profanity.
I'll tell the girls over coffee at work on monday that I ice climb to commune with nature and there is a tranquillity and oneness that comes from it which is close to zen like. They seem to dig this.
Of course really it's a heady mixture of panic, blind fury, barely controlled aggression, and fear that you're about to die. If many of us still had a reasonable expectation of being conscripted into a active military where bayonets were routinely used, I'm sure ice climbing as a concept would not occur to many.
Of course that won't impress the chicks though, at least not the type I know who all seem to do yoga...
In reply to vincentvega:
I use a variety of options in terms of hanging, clipping tools etc depending on how gripped I'm feeling. The bit that always gets me though, is getting the screw to bite in the first place. Unless the teeth are super sharp I often have to make repeated attempts to persuade it to stick and even when it does the amount of thread holding it in place whilst I move my hand to get a second twist is minimal. It's never happened but I always half expect the screw to fall out as soon as I move my hand away.
Since about 80-95% of the effort/energy I expend in placing screws is in just getting the f**cker to bite, the whole discussion about leashless tools or clipper leashes passes me by. I just want a screw that will go in easily.
An obvious soliution would be a screw with some type of ratchet on the hanger/shaft that would allow you to keep the pressure on whilst rotating your hand anti-clockwise (without rotating the screw anti-clockwise). A mate suggested that a screw of this type had been made but that it didn't work very well.
Any ideas/info about this
I use a variety of options in terms of hanging, clipping tools etc depending on how gripped I'm feeling. The bit that always gets me though, is getting the screw to bite in the first place. Unless the teeth are super sharp I often have to make repeated attempts to persuade it to stick and even when it does the amount of thread holding it in place whilst I move my hand to get a second twist is minimal. It's never happened but I always half expect the screw to fall out as soon as I move my hand away.
Since about 80-95% of the effort/energy I expend in placing screws is in just getting the f**cker to bite, the whole discussion about leashless tools or clipper leashes passes me by. I just want a screw that will go in easily.
An obvious soliution would be a screw with some type of ratchet on the hanger/shaft that would allow you to keep the pressure on whilst rotating your hand anti-clockwise (without rotating the screw anti-clockwise). A mate suggested that a screw of this type had been made but that it didn't work very well.
Any ideas/info about this
In reply to vincentvega:
I find that looping the rope over, or clipping into a well seated tool, is just extra faff & takes time & effort you could be using to get the screw to bite. Also, the hassle that wrist loops cause far outweighs any usefulness. Get clipper leashes, then when you're comfortable with them, go completely leashless.
I did that this year, and found that even though my tools aren't designed to be used leashless (Mountain Tech Vertige Extremes), they really are so much easier to manage when you're placing gear.
I find that looping the rope over, or clipping into a well seated tool, is just extra faff & takes time & effort you could be using to get the screw to bite. Also, the hassle that wrist loops cause far outweighs any usefulness. Get clipper leashes, then when you're comfortable with them, go completely leashless.
I did that this year, and found that even though my tools aren't designed to be used leashless (Mountain Tech Vertige Extremes), they really are so much easier to manage when you're placing gear.
In reply to KeithW (LMC):
I do climb either leashless or with a double spring leashess, couldnt do it any other way!!
Just trying to get an idea if anyone loops the rope or clips the tool as i never have, just to protect youself when your hanging one handed! Iv never really give it any thought and just dismissed it as too much faff like you say!
But how much faff is it really to pull the rope over a well placed tool?!
Just weighing it up!
cheers
I do climb either leashless or with a double spring leashess, couldnt do it any other way!!
Just trying to get an idea if anyone loops the rope or clips the tool as i never have, just to protect youself when your hanging one handed! Iv never really give it any thought and just dismissed it as too much faff like you say!
But how much faff is it really to pull the rope over a well placed tool?!
Just weighing it up!
cheers
In reply to TobyA:
It may work in Finland.
In France or in Britain, this approach will only lead to sardonically raised eyebrows followed by "c'est très drole, ça" in France or "you do talk b*ll*cks" from aforementioned females if one happens to be in England.
Pretty much describes all my climbing, even when toproping on an indoor wall. Brownie points from being so rufty-tufty and macho are so much harder to get if one knows anything about what is actually happening.
> (In reply to Simon4)
> I'll tell the girls over coffee at work on monday that I ice climb to commune with nature and there is a tranquillity and oneness that comes from it which is close to zen like. They seem to dig this.
It may work in Finland.
In France or in Britain, this approach will only lead to sardonically raised eyebrows followed by "c'est très drole, ça" in France or "you do talk b*ll*cks" from aforementioned females if one happens to be in England.
> Of course really it's a heady mixture of panic, blind fury, barely controlled aggression, and fear that you're about to die.
Pretty much describes all my climbing, even when toproping on an indoor wall. Brownie points from being so rufty-tufty and macho are so much harder to get if one knows anything about what is actually happening.
In reply to agp:
Exactly the problem that I find - I am always terrified of dropping the screw before it is secure enough to hold itself.
Once you can start a screw on the first few threads, dealing with the rest of the process is easy, at least by comparison. But getting it to bite in the first place can be a nightmare, especially if the ground is very steep or vertical. Of course it is easy to place a screw below a very steep section, where you are essentially standing on comfortable ground, but if one is climbing say French 4 or 4+, one has to place screws on very steep or vertical ice or solo large sections, which means placing screws when the process of doing so seems to conspire to push you off the ice.
One option is to free one hand while using the other hooked through the leash to assist the placing hand.
Exactly the problem that I find - I am always terrified of dropping the screw before it is secure enough to hold itself.
Once you can start a screw on the first few threads, dealing with the rest of the process is easy, at least by comparison. But getting it to bite in the first place can be a nightmare, especially if the ground is very steep or vertical. Of course it is easy to place a screw below a very steep section, where you are essentially standing on comfortable ground, but if one is climbing say French 4 or 4+, one has to place screws on very steep or vertical ice or solo large sections, which means placing screws when the process of doing so seems to conspire to push you off the ice.
One option is to free one hand while using the other hooked through the leash to assist the placing hand.
In reply to vincentvega:
If I was leashless I'd worry about dislodging it.
> But how much faff is it really to pull the rope over a well placed tool?!
If I was leashless I'd worry about dislodging it.
In reply to vincentvega:
amid the frenzy, panic, vertigo and paranoia that is any icefall line, just sink your left tool nice and solid and start hanging.
forget fiddling about with looping ropes over the heads etc. the less time spent standing about the better.
going leashless means you can alternate arms if the screwing process starts getting too long.
spend big on screws and keep them sharp. having a litle chop to clear any ice and mark a starting hole goes a long way to save energy - and thats what its all about.
amid the frenzy, panic, vertigo and paranoia that is any icefall line, just sink your left tool nice and solid and start hanging.
forget fiddling about with looping ropes over the heads etc. the less time spent standing about the better.
going leashless means you can alternate arms if the screwing process starts getting too long.
spend big on screws and keep them sharp. having a litle chop to clear any ice and mark a starting hole goes a long way to save energy - and thats what its all about.
In reply to Simon4:
I think getting a sardonically raised eyebrow from an attractive French woman would be reward enough in itself.
> this approach will only lead to sardonically raised eyebrows followed by "c'est très drole, ça"
I think getting a sardonically raised eyebrow from an attractive French woman would be reward enough in itself.
In reply to TJK:
DIY: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/02/ice-screw-sharpening.html
> How do you keep them sharp? DIY filing or professional machining?
DIY: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/02/ice-screw-sharpening.html
In reply to vincentvega:
I'm entirely with Icesolo on this.
Try to find the most restful position (good foot placements/ledges etc)- before things get gnarly then get a good screw in asap. Stuff fannying about with looping rope etc. Leashless helps. Only when absolutely boxed and about to fall off think about looping or clipping into your axes...and by then you're probably not going to make a clean ascent anyway!
I'm entirely with Icesolo on this.
Try to find the most restful position (good foot placements/ledges etc)- before things get gnarly then get a good screw in asap. Stuff fannying about with looping rope etc. Leashless helps. Only when absolutely boxed and about to fall off think about looping or clipping into your axes...and by then you're probably not going to make a clean ascent anyway!
In reply to vincentvega:
i am more interested in your thoughts on the angle of the ice screw placement? i've read BD research (reiterated by Will Gadd in his book on ice climbing) that the screw should be tilted downwards as the strongest placement. they also say that a perpendicular to the ice placement is also strong while upwards is the weakest. at the same time, ive talked with some expert ice climbers and experienced mountaineers (also participating in the ice climbing world cup) and they definitely reject the downward placement and insist on the perpendicular one.
so whats ur experience on this one, anybody?
i am more interested in your thoughts on the angle of the ice screw placement? i've read BD research (reiterated by Will Gadd in his book on ice climbing) that the screw should be tilted downwards as the strongest placement. they also say that a perpendicular to the ice placement is also strong while upwards is the weakest. at the same time, ive talked with some expert ice climbers and experienced mountaineers (also participating in the ice climbing world cup) and they definitely reject the downward placement and insist on the perpendicular one.
so whats ur experience on this one, anybody?
In reply to tsetso:
Qualifying factor is in good ice - thereby opening the debate - what is 'good' ice?
Given the above subjective debate BD in the instrcutions they supply with their screws suggest placing the screw perpindicular. I would suspect that the reason for this is it hedges the bets given the issues around when is ice good (place the screw angled slightly down) or when the ice is 'not so good' (place the screw angled slightly up the way). Placing the screw perpindicular puts it in the middle bracket - the liberal way of ice screw protection
Plus it's awkward to place a screw pointing downwards on the lead in my experience.
FWIW the tests have been done both by BD (Chris Harmston) and Craig Leubben and both sets of tests bore out that screws placed angled slightly downwards in GOOD ICE are stronger than screws placed angled slightly upwards. Did you ask these experts and experienced mountaineers why they insisted on screws being placed perpindicular? I've placed screws at all angles but prefer to make that call based on my own assessment of the ice and how easy (pumped/scared I am) it is to place.
On the subject of placing screws - pro is for pussies - strength and honour and gun for the top.
That last line is a joke by the way...
Qualifying factor is in good ice - thereby opening the debate - what is 'good' ice?
Given the above subjective debate BD in the instrcutions they supply with their screws suggest placing the screw perpindicular. I would suspect that the reason for this is it hedges the bets given the issues around when is ice good (place the screw angled slightly down) or when the ice is 'not so good' (place the screw angled slightly up the way). Placing the screw perpindicular puts it in the middle bracket - the liberal way of ice screw protection
Plus it's awkward to place a screw pointing downwards on the lead in my experience.
FWIW the tests have been done both by BD (Chris Harmston) and Craig Leubben and both sets of tests bore out that screws placed angled slightly downwards in GOOD ICE are stronger than screws placed angled slightly upwards. Did you ask these experts and experienced mountaineers why they insisted on screws being placed perpindicular? I've placed screws at all angles but prefer to make that call based on my own assessment of the ice and how easy (pumped/scared I am) it is to place.
On the subject of placing screws - pro is for pussies - strength and honour and gun for the top.
That last line is a joke by the way...
In reply to george mc:
Hehe, joke or no, i was once slammed for climbing a 15m artificial ice tower on 2 screws it was probably only wi3...
anyway, the more advanced climbers that i know explain the perpendicular placement with the weaker holding power of the screw teeth compared to the leverage power of the screw length and the way that the ice breaks around the screw under pressure. they also cited some petzl tests in real conditions in france, proving these results. i have to say that made me chuckle in my mind because will gadd argued in his book the exact same points but in reverse direction - teeth holding better than screw length and ice breaking, as reason for downward placements.
i like your point on the quality of the ice, interestingly enough no one else seems to have mentioned it although its quite important and makes good sense
> (In reply to tsetso)
>
> On the subject of placing screws - pro is for pussies - strength and honour and gun for the top.
>
>
> That last line is a joke by the way...
>
> On the subject of placing screws - pro is for pussies - strength and honour and gun for the top.
>
>
> That last line is a joke by the way...
Hehe, joke or no, i was once slammed for climbing a 15m artificial ice tower on 2 screws it was probably only wi3...
anyway, the more advanced climbers that i know explain the perpendicular placement with the weaker holding power of the screw teeth compared to the leverage power of the screw length and the way that the ice breaks around the screw under pressure. they also cited some petzl tests in real conditions in france, proving these results. i have to say that made me chuckle in my mind because will gadd argued in his book the exact same points but in reverse direction - teeth holding better than screw length and ice breaking, as reason for downward placements.
i like your point on the quality of the ice, interestingly enough no one else seems to have mentioned it although its quite important and makes good sense
In reply to tsetso:
i ageee its totally a a big point, thing is everyones (rightly) so damned scared of falling on one theres not much first hand experience going around, and secondly, at $70 a pop no one has hundreds of bucks to spare testing the things themselves.
im personally up in the air on it. i like to say i stick with slight downward on good stuff, then judge it for anything else - but reality is when im at my limits im just cranking the things in optimistically, tho ironicly thats when it matters most.
now if you want something really nasty - have a go with a spectre. even BD doesnt try and dupe you with how marginal they are, plus youve gotta hang there hammering them in.
makes sinkin a screw feel easy.
oh, keep your screws sharp with a nice small file. youll never get em to factory standards again, but file out the chunked bits.
i ageee its totally a a big point, thing is everyones (rightly) so damned scared of falling on one theres not much first hand experience going around, and secondly, at $70 a pop no one has hundreds of bucks to spare testing the things themselves.
im personally up in the air on it. i like to say i stick with slight downward on good stuff, then judge it for anything else - but reality is when im at my limits im just cranking the things in optimistically, tho ironicly thats when it matters most.
now if you want something really nasty - have a go with a spectre. even BD doesnt try and dupe you with how marginal they are, plus youve gotta hang there hammering them in.
makes sinkin a screw feel easy.
oh, keep your screws sharp with a nice small file. youll never get em to factory standards again, but file out the chunked bits.
In reply to agp:
I think they were probably talking about Grivel Americanas, which I think work very well. I'm not sure if you can still get them though ...
I would be quite wary about looping the rope over the top of my axes, as I imagine the top of the pick might still be sharp enough to cut through a weighted rope on my axes (BD Vipers).
I think they were probably talking about Grivel Americanas, which I think work very well. I'm not sure if you can still get them though ...
I would be quite wary about looping the rope over the top of my axes, as I imagine the top of the pick might still be sharp enough to cut through a weighted rope on my axes (BD Vipers).
In reply to vincentvega:
This might be off use:
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cust_images/pdf/mountainsport%20articles/GM...
Cheers fur noo
George
This might be off use:
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cust_images/pdf/mountainsport%20articles/GM...
Cheers fur noo
George
In reply to george mc: thanks, mate, that definitely cleared up the mess in my head a bit
In reply to vincentvega:
http://www.landsar.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=312
Heres a great article from NZ about snow stakes for those who partake in scottish winter climbing.
the study was brought about after the death of 2 high profile guides (and clients) on Mt Tasman a few years back.
Sits as a good partner to the Ice screw article.
cheers
http://www.landsar.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=312
Heres a great article from NZ about snow stakes for those who partake in scottish winter climbing.
the study was brought about after the death of 2 high profile guides (and clients) on Mt Tasman a few years back.
Sits as a good partner to the Ice screw article.
cheers
In reply to Barry Skot:
Aye right - random dude...
Aye right - random dude...
In reply to Lucas:
Cheers for posting that link. I used that as a reference (plus some informal testing at GL) for this article published in the AMI magazine a few years back. The NZ article is pretty technical so can be a tough read, hopefully mines makes the same points but is less'technical'.
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cust_images/pdf/mountainsport%20articles/GM...
Cheers fur noo
George
Cheers for posting that link. I used that as a reference (plus some informal testing at GL) for this article published in the AMI magazine a few years back. The NZ article is pretty technical so can be a tough read, hopefully mines makes the same points but is less'technical'.
http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cust_images/pdf/mountainsport%20articles/GM...
Cheers fur noo
George
In reply to vincentvega: Re clipping in to your tool whilst placing a screw.
I've not seen the draping the rope over the axe thing before but I sometimes clip the axe (if I think there's any chance I'll fall off!).
I don't really see why this should take up much time or cause any faff.
You have to remove a quickdraw from your harness and clip the rope anyway, you just do it before you've placed the screw instead of after. Once the screw is in you just unclip the quickdraw from the axe and transfer it to the screw which takes approximately 2 seconds.
Re ratcheting ice screws.
I believe Camp used to make one called a RATZ (ratcheting aluminium tube screw), but I haven't heard or seen anything of them for years, nor have I ever used one so I've no idea whether they were any good but they obviously didn't catch on. My guess is that until the screw has bitten the ratcheting mechanism won't work as there's no resistance to hold the screw when you rotate the handle back so it doesn't solve the OP's original problem of getting screws to bite.
I've not seen the draping the rope over the axe thing before but I sometimes clip the axe (if I think there's any chance I'll fall off!).
I don't really see why this should take up much time or cause any faff.
You have to remove a quickdraw from your harness and clip the rope anyway, you just do it before you've placed the screw instead of after. Once the screw is in you just unclip the quickdraw from the axe and transfer it to the screw which takes approximately 2 seconds.
Re ratcheting ice screws.
I believe Camp used to make one called a RATZ (ratcheting aluminium tube screw), but I haven't heard or seen anything of them for years, nor have I ever used one so I've no idea whether they were any good but they obviously didn't catch on. My guess is that until the screw has bitten the ratcheting mechanism won't work as there's no resistance to hold the screw when you rotate the handle back so it doesn't solve the OP's original problem of getting screws to bite.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...