UKC

I spent a total of maybe 8 days ice climbing so far, and am now comfortable leading grade 3/3+ ice, and seconding grade 4. I thought that wasn’t too bad – by no means any great progression, of course, but just OK – then I read this
“Most new climbers are able to climb WI 3 their first day and quickly progress to WI 4 and WI 5 during the week.” (website: http://www.mountainschool.com/content/main/ouray-ice-climbing ) and I don’t feel so good any more!

Grade 4 – sustained vertical steps of 5-10 meters – seems just a bit too serious for me to consider leading yet: I can’t even properly place ice screws with one hand. I struggled when top-roping grade 4+ climbs; I just find it a little hard to believe that people get introduced to ice climbing on a course, then are able to lead grade 5 by the end of first week? Or maybe the website means top-roping, not leading, I am not sure..

Anyway, what was your experience progressing through ice grades?

In reply to alps_p:
It will be seconding or top roping. No mountain school in their right mind would suggest a newbie could go from learning to strap on crampons to leading WI5 in one week. The exception of course would be really good rock or mixed climbers who have never tried pure ice. Or perhaps a really hacked out Rjukan WI5 (ie really soft)

In reply to alps_p: because ice climbing is very 'head' orientated, the important thing is you feel about what you are doing, having a really good positive feeling about your progression is great, comparing it to others will inevitably focus your mind on people you either have or say they have soared through the grades. ignore all the crap, also ignore the stuff you saw on theat website, they are talking about seconding for sure, besides, they would hardly say 'it's really hard guys you'll struggle on grade 3 and by the end of the week be completeley knackered and unable to hold your beer, and will have kicked your toes so hard into your new boots so many times your big toenails will fall out' it would not be good marketing. for many people these days it is all about instantly spending megabucks on all the shit hot gear and they wnat to be climbing all the stunning routes we see so many pics of, but at the end of the day just getting out there and getting mileage makes the difference, build up a goodly number of ticks at your grade before going for the next, slowly slowly catchee monkee.

and obviously, its not all about the grade, as alex lowe said, the best climber is the one who is enjoying himself the most.

In reply to alps_p: Having done no ice climbing previously, and only a handful of Scottish winter routes at III / IV, me and a group of friends all were leading WI4 by the end of a week in La Grave. I tried a WI4+ and bailed out at the steepest part.

Unless Ouray grades are soft, I would've thought that WI5 in a week is a bit unrealistic!

In reply to alps_p:

That website definitely states that they are top-roping those grades. I have only really done a week ice climbing in Rjukan (where I believe the grades are soft) and I am reasonably strong on rock, and I found that doing the moves on grade 5s was pretty straightforward. However, my rock fitness probably counted for a lot, and I got pretty pumped on longer vertical routes, so I think their claim is certainly possible but in no way guaranteed.

In reply to Monk: would you lead grade 5 after just one week?
For me, the whole difficulty when on-sighting/leading comes from having to place screws, and getting pumped on sustained vertical sections.. And I don't really consider it an option to fall when leading on ice - my ankle is already bad enough - so I need that almost 100% margin that I will not fall.. that is why I still hesitate to attempt leading Aany grade 4 ice climbs, even though I top-roped cleanly pretty much every climb of such grade that I tried..

In reply to alps_p: On my first ice trip (last week) I managed to lead grade 6 although a soft 6 with lots of hooks and was fairly comfortable on 5. If you are fit and can rock climb ok this seems about right. I would say all you need is a reasonable fitness for rock climbing and a confident approach to lead grade 5 in a week. It's all in the head, a positive approach will get you far.

In reply to Monk:


I think that I could have done, but I am a bit of a coward really. According to the guide book I did, but the grade 5 I lead was easier than the 4s I lead!

Personally, I didn't find placing screws too difficult (but by no means easy). As I said - I think that my rock fitness helped a lot. I think that a strong rock climber with a good head could easily lead grade 5 ice within a week.

Having said that, I agree that climbing ice is a mental game. Some people are happier to climb closer to their limits that others. I like to have a reasonable amount in hand when I am climbing, so it is usually my head that is holding me back rather than my body.

In reply to alps_p: If you climb ice a lot you also realise how much it can change - I scared myself stupid a couple of weeks ago leading something that would probably be WI3, maybe even 2+. It was -25 and the ice was hard and would shatter in bizzarre and unpredictable ways. The next weekend it was about -4 and I couldn't find anyone to climb with so went and soloed 6 lines of a similar or steeper at another local crag and felt happy and safe doing it. The same route can feel totally different different seasons, or even within a season.

You also see beginners who are trusting dodgy placements or placing their tools in silly places. Maybe 9 times out of 10 that placement won't blow, and they get away with it, but not always. Hence if you're week corresponds with good ice in sensible temperatures your progression is likely to be very different from a cold week on thin, fresh ice. I wouldn't worry about it too much because ice is so variable!

In reply to mic_b:

with all due respect if it is hooked out like the routes in rjukan have been over the past month they are nothing at all like a full 5, or anywhere near a 6 anywhere else in europe. The routes like sabotorfossen are probably only 4 in current conditions as steps and hooks take off anywhere between one and two grades depending on severity.

I think leadinga 4 after a weeks ice climbing would be a solid achievement. Especially if it is not hooked as it is a different story learning to swing an axe properly and following up with your feet just in the axe holes than yarding up steep ice on massive holes for axes and feet.

Bearing this in mind from your other post I think you may have a nasty shock on your nevis VI if you have only climbed point 5 and those routes in rjukan. Although a positive approach will indeed get you far, it will also make you fall far if you bite of more than you can chew not realising how different those routes in rjukan are to a think scottish VI on the ben.

In reply to smithaldo: He climbs E6, so I imagine he'll probably be fine on a nevis VI, technically, they're not very hard.

I definitely agree about hooked out routes being much easier. 2 Examples:

1. Smith's Gully on Meagaidh (V,5) the other week - totally hooked out, felt about WI3+

2. A route in Rjukan that I've forgotten the name of - meant to be WI4 but I took a direct start that was about 10m of vertical, untouched ice and it was -15c. Desperate! Harder than the WI5 finish of Der Caller meg Fjard which I did a few days later in hooked-out condition.

Just to stir the pot pointlessly (and to further the procrastination of homework) I'll chip in that I know a young gentleman from Colorado who lead The Fang in Vail as his second ice route, just after seconding the Rigid Designator. It was rumoured that he mentioned something about "jugs" and murmured "five nine".

In reply to smithaldo: I totally agree about the grade difference between a beaten out climb and one where you have to make your own holes. I climbed some virgin grade 5 terrain that was way way harder than the supposed 6 I climbed, however the 6 was a lot more serious and that's part of the grade. Not sure I agree about the scottish grades though. I'm well up for trying some VI's and don't think I'll have too much trouble, I shall see I guess. Cheers

In reply to alps_p:

Some good points made to your question. I would also add that if you progress up the grades to fast you miss out on all the fantastic climbs in the lower grades. Better to enjoy them as you go and build your fitnes and experienc up slowly and above all enjoy it. I've been winter climbing for over 30 years and now at 50 its been my best season every and climbing harder than ever.

Regards

Derek

In reply to Derek Kenyon: Converseley, save the easy ones for when the head goes and the belly bulges...