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T rated picks bending

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 WillHempstead 16 Oct 2020

The other day I was doing a bit of warm up drytooling. I managed to bend the T rated ice pick on one of my Grivel tech machines quite badly on a torque. I really didnt think this happened unless you did something mental with them. Has it happened to anyone else?

Also has anyone had any luck getting in touch with Grivel in the past? I've sent them a few emails but no luck.

Cheers!

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In reply to WillHempstead:

I'm not sure what you think Grivel would do?

I've bent picks before although probably they were B rated than T rated. For years the last inch or so of one of my quarks bent in a bit. I still used for ice climbing loads and it didn't seem to cause any issues!

If you don't want to replace it, I'd stick in a vice and give it some welly and try and bend it straightish again. 

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In reply to TobyA:

Or buy some tooling picks 

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 barry donovan 16 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

Wassatabout ?  We haven’t even had a first frost yet around here 

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In reply to WillHempstead:

I've bent a few picks over the years, never a Grivel one. Friends have also bent picks, again never Grivel ones. I've heard of Grivel picks snapping on occasions, a friend's snapped on Salvation.

I've had fantastic customer service from Mountain Boot Co, who import Grivel, try contacting them?

Stuart

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 WillHempstead 17 Oct 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Thought it was worth a try getting a new set of picks off of them - you never know unless you ask! I'm living the student climber life right now and money is tight...

My main concern is that on a lot of steeper mixed routes I reckon you'll be putting as much force through the pick. Using them just for ice is a good idea, the forces involved have got to be so much lower.

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 WillHempstead 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Stuart the postie:

Great, I'll give them a try. Cheers.

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In reply to WillHempstead:

I've seen someone bend a pick tooling. The guy was relatively heavy, the placement was a stein pull I think and he was loading it with his full weight (fig 4/9) from the side. Crux move on an M10+/11, so fairly brutal but it does happen. Usually in a torque they just flex and spring back to normal. I guess if it's a shallow torque and you've got no or very little weight on your feet it's possible to bend it but I'd avoid those kinds of placements for that reason. It shouldn't be happening on a warm up route, unless you're doing something very wrong!

I don't think the forces in winter climbing are anywhere near as high as you're generally on your feet, even if it doesn't feel like it!

Post edited at 02:20
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 WillHempstead 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Misha:

It was drytooling on an old railway tunnel in glasgow, nothing too mental, just a horizontal torque with poor feet - didn't seem like it would be out of place on a VI or VII to be honest, which is why I'm suprised it bent. Probably will just have to fork out for new picks.

I guess being gripped out of my mind every time I'm on a winter route is bound to make the placements feel a bit more intense!

I've got to admit, whilst working in a metal workshop over the summer I got a mate to weld steel plates to the back of the picks (as hammers). Obviously this heats the pick up quite a lot, but I wouldnt have thought enough to anneal the picks.

Post edited at 11:48
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 Eric9Points 17 Oct 2020
In reply to TobyA:

> I'm not sure what you think Grivel would do?

> I've bent picks before although probably they were B rated than T rated. For years the last inch or so of one of my quarks bent in a bit. I still used for ice climbing loads and it didn't seem to cause any issues!

> If you don't want to replace it, I'd stick in a vice and give it some welly and try and bend it straightish again. 

..and then inspect it carefully for cracks using a magnifying glass.

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In reply to WillHempstead:

I would imagine welding on hammers, would invalidate any warranty claim, since you have altered them.

Stuart

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In reply to WillHempstead:

How much of the pick was in the torque? If it’s only an inch say, I image it’s quite easy to bend due to the leverage. Also depends on the angles and direction of pull.

Can’t comment on the science but hearing the picks to weld something onto them sounds like a bad idea. Try kuzniaszpeju for replacements, their stuff is tough. 

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 WillHempstead 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Stuart the postie:

Yeah the warranty is for sure is invalidated. I thought there was a slim chance they might just send me new picks if I dont mention the diy weld but its a long shot...

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 WillHempstead 17 Oct 2020
In reply to Misha:

yeah it was only an inch or two, I think I'm probably expecting a bit much from them.

I kind of thought the weld would be okay since it only really heats the back part where the hammer is being welded to properly high temperatures, I dont think the rest of the pick could be much more than 500 degrees for a min or two. But I'm no material scientist

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 Webster 17 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

hi will, i have a slight bend in one  of my T rated mixed picks, no idea when or how it happened but it doesnt affect performance too much. the fact that they are blunted about an inch shorter than they should be has far more of an effect!

personally i would retire it to your dry tooling and 'scratching around on early season granite' picks. i dont think it is likely to snap, unless the welding did compromise the integrity. 

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 nawface 17 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

> I thought there was a slim chance they might just send me new picks if I dont mention the diy weld but its a long shot...

probably longer now you've written about it on the world's most popular climbing forum under your own name.

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 wbo2 17 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead: I would think it very likely the welding would get the temps up enough for air cooling to soften the steel..  

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In reply to WillHempstead:

I don’t know how hard you were loading them but if you have only 1-2 inches in, you have to be very careful. You’d be able to see some serious flex going on. I suspect you were lucky not to snap them. 

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 WillHempstead 18 Oct 2020
In reply to nawface:

By the time I'd mentioned it on here, everyones comments had made me realise that getting new picks was a poorly thought out pipe dream

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 nniff 19 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

> I've got to admit, whilst working in a metal workshop over the summer I got a mate to weld steel plates to the back of the picks (as hammers). 

I think you've rather answered your own question - what started life as a T-rated pick is now something else.  If you were to send them back to Grivel, I surmise that their inspector would take one look at the 'improvements' shrug his Gallic shoulders, day "Boff" and drop them in the bin.

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 timparkin 19 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

> yeah it was only an inch or two, I think I'm probably expecting a bit much from them.

> I kind of thought the weld would be okay since it only really heats the back part where the hammer is being welded to properly high temperatures, I dont think the rest of the pick could be much more than 500 degrees for a min or two. But I'm no material scientist

300C is enough to affect the ductility of steel. I suspect this has contributed to the new flexibility of your pick. (Google process annealing which, despite not being as intensive as your usual annealing, will take quite a bit of the hardness out of the steel)

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 WillHempstead 19 Oct 2020
In reply to timparkin:

okay cheers! I'll look it up

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 emily roo 21 Oct 2020
In reply to WillHempstead:

I bent one of my nomic picks a couple of seasons ago... which is ridiculous really as I'm a pretty light 55kg! I think I must have oddly glanced a rock embedded in ice - not really blunting the point but apparently bending it significantly... It would go into ice fine but just wouldn't come out because of the new angle of the blade. I tried to sharpen it out but the albeit gentle curve was too close to the head. I still didn't fully believe I had bent it that until I took it off - definitely not a flat piece of metal anymore!

I didn't bother telling Petzl as I get through at least one set of picks a year - collateral damage/user error?! I tried to bend it back but don't have access to a proper vice/workshop these days so I just binned it. BUT it has made me super paranoid of doing it again (or with a worse bend) in a serious situation. I really am not heavy or super strong and no one believed me until they tried my axes themselves! so now I take spare sets with me on big trips and expeditions...

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 WillHempstead 22 Oct 2020
In reply to emily roo:

Thats mad! And kind of worrying...

I hadnt thought about cleaning bent picks from ice, I bet it sucks. I've been trying to weigh up buying new ones but that tips the ballance.

The Kuznia Szpeju picks seem like good value, I'll get a set of those.

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In reply to WillHempstead:

The Kuznia stuff is pretty tough. I wouldn’t use them for ice as the finish isn’t as precise as on an original pick but they’re fine on mixed and last longer than the Petzl ones.

Having said that, I’ve yet to bend or break my Petzl dry tooling picks. The Petzl stuff goes pretty quickly on mixed though. Not sure about Grivel. 

Post edited at 23:11
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 WillHempstead 23 Oct 2020
In reply to Misha:

Should do the job on mixed then, and really I only climb the odd ice classic anyway. Having said that, maybe 2020-21 will be a vintage for scottish ice...

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