28m.

Rockfax Description
A fine and devious route which is one of the best of its grade in the Peak. Very sustained, though with a harder move to reach the roof. Climb a flake to a peg. Step across left to another flake then pull up with difficulty (peg above) to below the roof. Pull over to gain a bucket then tiptoe right across the slab. Climb direct to the top and a dirty exit. © Rockfax

FA. Brian Moore, J.Ballard (aid) 1969. FFA. Gabriel Reagan, Al Evans 1976

Ticklists

Rockfax Peak Limestone Top 50, World Graded List, Peak Rock/13/The Limestone Revolution, Ultimate E3 ticklist, Definitive *** Peak Lime

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UserDateNotes
Katya 31 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Mike, like ted I agree with most of what you say. The 'just don't clip it then' argument is flawed though, and has been discussed too many times already... When I led the route earlier this year, I was paying attention to the bolt placements, and I can assure you that 1, 2 and 5 were easilly clippable without going off line, simply by reaching out left for 1 from the initital crack, clipping halfway along the traverse (at the rest) by your feet for the 2nd. I nearlly chopped them then, but then found out it was your project and I thought I'd speak to you about it first - simply havn't seen you since then... You ask, 'are we being dictated to how we should climb in Britain?' - well I think the answer is yes. There would be outrage if somene were to come along and bolt up projects on the Chee Tor changing the character of surrounding routes. In fact I think there is a 'no more bolting rule' there already. Just because there is already signifigant bolt development on Two Tier doesn't mean that the whole crag is up for grabs (though nearlly...). Think about the impact on other routes, especially ones as good as Mad Dogs. My previous comments weren't about a conflict between trad and sport, I enjoy them both equally, and fully appreciate the work you have done helping to create the wonderful resource that we now have down there. I just think we need to preserve the handful of high quality trad routes that we have.
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: Mike, like ted I agree with most of what you say. The 'just don't clip it then' argument is flawed though, and has been discussed too many times already... When I led the route earlier this year, I was paying attention to the bolt placements, and I can assure you that 1, 2 and 5 were easilly clippable without going off line, simply by reaching out left for 1 from the initital crack, clipping halfway along the traverse (at the rest) by your feet for the 2nd. I nearlly chopped them then, but then found out it was your project and I thought I'd speak to you about it first - simply havn't seen you since then... You ask, 'are we being dictated to how we should climb in Britain?' - well I think the answer is yes. There would be outrage if somene were to come along and bolt up projects on the Chee Tor changing the character of surrounding routes. In fact I think there is a 'no more bolting rule' there already. Just because there is already signifigant bolt development on Two Tier doesn't mean that the whole crag is up for grabs (though nearlly...). Think about the impact on other routes, especially ones as good as Mad Dogs. My previous comments weren't about a conflict between trad and sport, I enjoy them both equally, and fully appreciate the work you have done helping to create the wonderful resource that we now have down there. I just think we need to preserve the handful of high quality trad routes that we have.
teddy 29 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: I respect your comments and agree with a lot of what you say. However, your ideas about bolts that can be clipped on trad routes do not add up. The whole point of a trad route is to climb without bolts. So if there is one to clip and you are in 'extremis', you always have the option to clip it and escape in safety if you have to to get out of danger. This takes away from the experience of trad climbing where the aim is to put yourself in a position of having to rely only upon your wires/ friends and climbing prowess. The fact that you might overextend yourself and 'run it out' with no way of putting in gear would spoil the experience with the mere fact of a bolt being available, even if you don't clip it. Think about it and try to respect British trad climbing heritage before you bolt.
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: I respect your comments and agree with a lot of what you say. However, your ideas about bolts that can be clipped on trad routes do not add up. The whole point of a trad route is to climb without bolts. So if there is one to clip and you are in 'extremis', you always have the option to clip it and escape in safety if you have to to get out of danger. This takes away from the experience of trad climbing where the aim is to put yourself in a position of having to rely only upon your wires/ friends and climbing prowess. The fact that you might overextend yourself and 'run it out' with no way of putting in gear would spoil the experience with the mere fact of a bolt being available, even if you don't clip it. Think about it and try to respect British trad climbing heritage before you bolt.
Katya 18 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Well, it is one of the best E3 trads route in the peak and its a shame its been compromised by this project. You can clip 3 of the bolts (1, 2, and 5) from Mad Dogs. There is plenty of rock to make indifferent 7C's out of down there, there's not so many 3* E3's in the Peak. A Fairer solution would be for the project to start up MD on trad gear, then break out on the new line, thus leaving the origional route unchanged, if it has to be there at all. Better still the bolts should go, and a Peak classic that is still very regulary climbed left well alone. Was discussed here - didn't seem to be much support for the bolts... http://www.rockfax.com/forums/t.php?t=59567
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: Well, it is one of the best E3 trads route in the peak and its a shame its been compromised by this project. You can clip 3 of the bolts (1, 2, and 5) from Mad Dogs. There is plenty of rock to make indifferent 7C's out of down there, there's not so many 3* E3's in the Peak. A Fairer solution would be for the project to start up MD on trad gear, then break out on the new line, thus leaving the origional route unchanged, if it has to be there at all. Better still the bolts should go, and a Peak classic that is still very regulary climbed left well alone. Was discussed here - didn't seem to be much support for the bolts... http://www.rockfax.com/forums/t.php?t=59567
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Logged Ascents

User Date Style Notes & Partners
fatboyslimfast ?? -
Nigel White ?? -
Hidden 8 Jul, 2018 2nd
Alan James - UKC and UKH 6 May, 2018 Lead What truly magnificent climb. It has everything - wall, bulge, slab, groove. No easy moves but no desperate ones either and just enough gear.
What truly magnificent climb. It has everything - wall, bulge, slab, groove. No easy moves but no desperate ones either and just enough gear.
Dominic Green 6 May, 2018 2nd
Mike W 23 Apr, 2018 Lead O/S
Al Evans ??, 2018 2nd first ascent
with gabriel regan
first ascent
with gabriel regan
Haydn Jones 1 Jul, 2017 Lead O/S I thought this was an amazing route. Loved how it took you all over the place
with Becca
I thought this was an amazing route. Loved how it took you all over the place
with Becca
nai 22 Sep, 2016 Lead O/S Slightly Disappointing. Pretty easy for the grade if you can use your feet and the gear is a bit of a time consuming phaff. Route description unfortunately gives away what to expect over the roof at the very point where doubt could make things much more interesting.
with John
Slightly Disappointing. Pretty easy for the grade if you can use your feet and the gear is a bit of a time consuming phaff. Route description unfortunately gives away what to expect over the roof at the very point where doubt could make things much more interesting.
with John
Hannes B 5 Jun, 2016 Lead β in the sun, as suggested :)
in the sun, as suggested :)
rocksol ??, 2016 -
WB 18 Jul, 2015 Lead O/S Mark lead it first and gave me some beta, which was all wrong. Not top 50
Mark lead it first and gave me some beta, which was all wrong. Not top 50
markalmack 18 Jul, 2015 Lead O/S Found the move up into the roof the crux. Getting through the roof was easy... the top groove was a bit gripping.
with will-i-am-old-as-fuck
Found the move up into the roof the crux. Getting through the roof was easy... the top groove was a bit gripping.
with will-i-am-old-as-fuck
mike mo ??, 2015 -
Hidden 14 Aug, 2014 Lead O/S
Alex@home 14 Aug, 2014 2nd rpt When I led this I thought the second move was significantly harder than the first, but to second it they felt about the same - both 5c
with TonyM
When I led this I thought the second move was significantly harder than the first, but to second it they felt about the same - both 5c
with TonyM
Rachel Slater 28 Jul, 2014 Lead O/S
Duncan Campbell 28 Jul, 2014 Lead β Belayed Rach on it first but placed my own kit. Fun but not a top 50 in my opinion? A few tricky moves, mainly the sections moving across the slabs/walls. Felt pretty ok for E3. Line in Peak Lime may be slightly wrong but its pretty obvious where you go. At the top we climbed right hand side of groove.
Belayed Rach on it first but placed my own kit. Fun but not a top 50 in my opinion? A few tricky moves, mainly the sections moving across the slabs/walls. Felt pretty ok for E3. Line in Peak Lime may be slightly wrong but its pretty obvious where you go. At the top we climbed right hand side of groove.
Hidden 14 Jun, 2014 Lead
Ian Broome 21 Jul, 2013 Lead O/S
with Chris
with Chris
Alex@home 8 Jul, 2013 Lead O/S every bit as good as the description suggests. move from 1st flake to 2nd is 5c, but move from 2nd flake to the roof is definite crux. felt harder than crux of the beest so i'm going to say 6a
with leon
every bit as good as the description suggests. move from 1st flake to 2nd is 5c, but move from 2nd flake to the roof is definite crux. felt harder than crux of the beest so i'm going to say 6a
with leon
leon 8 Jul, 2013 2nd O/S increasingly hard mOves until established under the roof
increasingly hard mOves until established under the roof
Brown 29 Jun, 2013 Lead
with Lilifa
with Lilifa
Simon Davis ?Jun, 2013 Lead O/S
with Tim P And Jamie V
with Tim P And Jamie V
Andrew Barker 12 Aug, 2012 Lead β
Speeddemonsi 12 Aug, 2012 Lead O/S
Hidden 4 Aug, 2012 Lead O/S
Si dH 29 Jul, 2012 Lead dog Fell off looking for the bucket :( really enjoyed the route tho. Hard for me both mentally and technically. New rockfax guidebook line at the roof is wrong.
with Chris Foster
Fell off looking for the bucket :( really enjoyed the route tho. Hard for me both mentally and technically. New rockfax guidebook line at the roof is wrong.
with Chris Foster
Luke Brooks 28 May, 2012 Lead O/S
Hidden 26 May, 2012 Lead O/S
Hidden 25 Mar, 2012 Lead O/S
Hidden 25 Mar, 2012 Lead O/S
Hidden ??, 2012 -
Wil Treasure 4 Sep, 2011 Lead dnf Had a bit of a spazz attack at the first roof and decided I wasn't enjoying myself. Will return.
with Jon L
Had a bit of a spazz attack at the first roof and decided I wasn't enjoying myself. Will return.
with Jon L
Hidden 27 Aug, 2011 Lead O/S
nic42 27 Aug, 2011 2nd dog
with mike, Jack
with mike, Jack
Hidden 25 Aug, 2011 Lead O/S
gregoritos 23 Jul, 2011 Lead rpt
Hidden 11 Jun, 2011 Lead O/S
Rich Guest 11 Jun, 2011 Lead O/S Is it just me, or did anyone else spend an entire hour standing around committing to the crux? :( The guidebook says 'no specific crux'... errr, not really the case when a point is reached where blind footholds the size of a 1p coin have to be utilised in combination with one handed, two finger crimps!! Bloody brilliant experience throughout though. The roof is a blast :)
Is it just me, or did anyone else spend an entire hour standing around committing to the crux? :( The guidebook says 'no specific crux'... errr, not really the case when a point is reached where blind footholds the size of a 1p coin have to be utilised in combination with one handed, two finger crimps!! Bloody brilliant experience throughout though. The roof is a blast :)
Hidden 24 Apr, 2011 Lead O/S
Hidden 24 Apr, 2011 2nd
Hidden ??, 2011 -
Paul ablitt 7 Aug, 2010 Lead O/S
Hidden 12 Jun, 2010 Lead O/S
Hidden 4 May, 2010 2nd
Hidden 4 May, 2010 Lead O/S
Ally Smith 25 Apr, 2010 Lead Started raining whilst on lead - 1pt aid to overcome wet foliage at the top.
Started raining whilst on lead - 1pt aid to overcome wet foliage at the top.
mattyork2 25 Apr, 2010 Lead dnf Got scared and grabbed the draw on the peg ahving rocked up out right below the after an hour of umming and aring. Subsequently tried this move again on second and fell of and found that I ahd to rock left not right. Difficult orute finding and also poor route reading and very poor bravery all to blame.
with GrantB
Got scared and grabbed the draw on the peg ahving rocked up out right below the after an hour of umming and aring. Subsequently tried this move again on second and fell of and found that I ahd to rock left not right. Difficult orute finding and also poor route reading and very poor bravery all to blame.
with GrantB
Dave Warburton 16 Aug, 2009 Lead O/S Unsustained. VHard move getting established under the roof. Undoubtedly 1 6a move on it. Still E3 though.
Unsustained. VHard move getting established under the roof. Undoubtedly 1 6a move on it. Still E3 though.
Stig 5 Aug, 2009 2nd dog Failed to lead, failed to second. Undoubtedly at least two 6a moves on it but hard going all the way.
with Greg
Failed to lead, failed to second. Undoubtedly at least two 6a moves on it but hard going all the way.
with Greg
gregoritos 5 Aug, 2009 Lead O/S
with james
with james
Hidden 25 Jul, 2009 Lead O/S
The old James turnbull ??, 2008 Lead
with aiden
with aiden
nige 7 Apr, 2007 Lead
with sven rowan
with sven rowan
robyn1 ??, 2007 -
Dave Bond 14 Jul, 2006 Lead O/S
Hidden ?Jul, 2006 -
Ram MkiV 17 Jun, 2006 Lead O/S
with Alex
with Alex
Alex Mason 17 Jun, 2006 Lead O/S again mostly on steves gear, good route didnt feel the 3* awesomeness i was expecting, friable rock aswell. me and steve both had different sequences for both cruxes and the move up to the roof felt 6a/b tough little move.
again mostly on steves gear, good route didnt feel the 3* awesomeness i was expecting, friable rock aswell. me and steve both had different sequences for both cruxes and the move up to the roof felt 6a/b tough little move.
Hidden ??, 2005 Lead
Tom Briggs ??, 2005 -
steepstuff ??, 2005 -
Hidden ??, 2003 -
tuftynick ??, 2000 Lead O/S
with ciaran troup
with ciaran troup
Hidden ??, 2000 Lead
Mike_d78 10 Aug, 1997 Lead O/S
with ste_d
with ste_d
ste_d 10 Aug, 1997 2nd O/S
Hidden ?Jun, 1997 Lead
uphillnow ??, 1996 2nd
Hidden ?Oct, 1995 Lead O/S
Neil McA 13 Aug, 1995 2nd rpt
with simon crossley, pete barrass
with simon crossley, pete barrass
crossleysm ??, 1995 Lead O/S c.95
c.95
NickJH ?Jul, 1994 Lead rpt
with JWood
with JWood
Dave Musgrove 2 Aug, 1992 Lead O/S
with Lyn
with Lyn
MikePycroft 24 Jun, 1992 2nd
MikePycroft 24 Jun, 1992 2nd
steveb2006 24 Jun, 1992 Lead
Hidden 15 Jun, 1992 Lead O/S
DDDD ??, 1992 Lead O/S
with Richard Newey
with Richard Newey
craig d ??, 1992 -
Roget 1 Sep, 1991 Lead O/S
with Jonathan T
with Jonathan T
Steve Crowe 11 Aug, 1991 Lead O/S Found it hard.
with karin
Found it hard.
with karin
NickJH ?Jul, 1991 Lead 1 rest at crux
with N Smart, D Picker
1 rest at crux
with N Smart, D Picker
Hidden ?Jun, 1991 Lead O/S
sadams ?May, 1991 2nd
with Kev Mellieu
with Kev Mellieu
Bulls Crack ??, 1991 Lead O/S
with AM
with AM
Stoney Boy 9 Jul, 1990 Lead O/S
ajtay ??, 1990 -
with Various
with Various
Hidden ??, 1990 Lead O/S
Hidden ?Sep, 1989 Lead
Hidden ?Jun, 1989 -
phardman 7 May, 1989 Lead O/S
Hidden ??, 1989 -
goshawk ?Jun, 1988 Lead
with JI
with JI
Mike Owen 21 May, 1988 Lead O/S
with Tim Lowe
with Tim Lowe
steveb2006 15 May, 1988 Lead
with Simon Mee
with Simon Mee
Hidden 14 May, 1988 Lead
Steve Lewis 1 May, 1988 Lead O/S
with Alan Dance, Alun Richardson
with Alan Dance, Alun Richardson
charlesmfrench 17 Apr, 1988 Lead O/S
Neil R ??, 1988 2nd
with AIH
with AIH
David Slater ?Sep, 1987 Lead
with Paul Metcalf
with Paul Metcalf
Billg 2 Aug, 1987 Lead O/S
with Nigel Slater
with Nigel Slater
andybirtwistle 9 May, 1987 Lead
with Ian Kyle
with Ian Kyle
Hidden 29 Apr, 1987 Lead
John H Bull (tcfka Bullybones) ??, 1987 Lead O/S
sadams 31 Jul, 1986 Lead
with Kevin Edwards
with Kevin Edwards
Hidden 25 May, 1986 Lead
UKB Shark 23 May, 1986 Lead O/S
Greg Cunningham ??, 1986 Lead
Derek Furze ??, 1986 Lead
Hidden ?May, 1985 Lead O/S
andy gittins ??, 1985 -
Seymore Butt ??, 1985 Lead
with Ian Fenton
with Ian Fenton
Steve Clegg 12 May, 1984 -
with Steve G
with Steve G
Pete Wimbush ??, 1984 Lead O/S
Ivan Machin 13 Oct, 1982 -
with Jon Mellor
with Jon Mellor
Neil McA 1 Jul, 1982 Lead O/S
with Ian Jones, Flog
with Ian Jones, Flog
Hidden ?Jun, 1982 Lead
Hidden ??, 1982 Lead
Hidden ??, 1982 Lead
redjerry ?Jun, 1980 Lead O/S
with Roy Williamson
with Roy Williamson
Mark Kemball 10 May, 1980 Lead
with John Jefferies
with John Jefferies
duncan ?May, 1980 Lead β First Lime E3 (discounting retrospective upgrades), shortly after several friends' ascents
First Lime E3 (discounting retrospective upgrades), shortly after several friends' ascents
Andy Edgar ??, 1980 Lead
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Voting
High E4
Mid E4
Low E4
High E3
Mid E3
Low E3
High E2
Mid E2
Low E2
Votes cast 35
High 6a
Mid 6a
Low 6a
High 5c
Mid 5c
Low 5c
High 5b
Mid 5b
Low 5b
Votes cast 35
Votes cast 39
Style of Ascent
Lead
Followed
Not Set
Onsighted
Flashed (β)
Repeated
Dogged
DNF
Not Set