Joe Kinder is currently working hard at The Cathedral in Southern Utah, to complete "The connection", which starts on Unforgivable, 8c/+, and does the entire route basically and then ends on Slaughterhouse 5, 8c/+, to complete its entire meat. 9a or harder is what Joe thinks. Keith Ladzinski and Joe have collaborated on a video project to create what is now the Gregory Packs Commercial II. The featured route is Unforgivable. "I equipped this line and am confident in it being one of the best bouldery and crimpy routes in this style".