UKC

Im thinking of getting a steel framed hardtail but not sure about the types of steel.

I know to some extent that its also down to the choice of tube, geometry and welds but if all being equal, why would some choose to use 4130, 631, 725? 

Some of the frames Ive seen are Taiwanese made 4130 from brands like Cotic, Pipedream, Stanton (although they do offer a uk made 631 option for an additional £350). Are these likely to be inferior in terms of ride quality and durability compared to Reynolds 631 or 725? 

The Ribble 725 looks appealing but I dont know much about this grade of steel other than its heat hardened instead of air.

Any thoughts good folks?

In reply to The Potato:

All these steels have the same degree of elasticity, so which type of steel they are made of actually by itself, has very little to do with their ride quality.

What does vary is their 'strength' which means that stronger steels can be made into tubes with thinner wall sections which in turn will make the tube more compliant. The thinner wall sections will also be lighter for a given tube diameter, but if they use this weight reduction to allow the use of oversize tube diameters, then the stiffness will probably be higher as the sectional stiffness increases with the square of the diameter. So tube specification, material and geometry are all intrinsically linked and a frame is a sum of the contributing factors.

But the manipulation of the steel tubes to allow the centre section of the tube (away from the joint stresses) to be much thinner than the ends (double and triple butting)  is an expensive process, so if the manufacturer simply uses a more expensive headline grabbing type of steel, but in plain section not butted, then you'll just be buying a heavy, teeth rattling bike made of expensive steel at a premium price.

Then there is the joining of the tubes. Traditionally, bike tube sets (like all the 531 varieties) were joined using as little heat as possible with lugs, silver brazed rather than brass even. But builders felt this added unnecessary weight and restrictive in their design angles (and expensive). So weldable steels were developed which use very high temperatures to melt them together and dramatically alter the properties in the Heat Affected Zones around the highly stressed joins. So I wouldn't get too hung up about the hardening process of the tubes themselves as this won't survive the welding process without extensive post welding heat treatment of the frame as a whole.

So the general rules for comfort is be wary of oversized tube diameters and the lighter frame of the same size and geometry will probably have less steel in the tube wall thickness so will probably have a more compliant ride. But if you're a tall, gangling behemoth looking for a really large frame for a fully loaded touring bike, also check the frame is stiff enough.

In reply to The Potato: I've owned some good and what would be considered 'classic' steel framed bikes and basically you can characterise steel as cheap (gas pipe specials), expensive and somewhere in the middle.  The Taiwan made frames you mention are in the middle category, and i.m.o. will likely be very durable at the expense of some weight. Ride quality will be very variable and subjective - one mans sturdy will be another mans 'dead' and by no means is this magical springiness guaranteed.  

Why choose particular types - cost, what's available to buy - where's the Ribble coming from - Taiwan as well?  

The best hardtail I've owned, ridden, and I've owned a few was a Scott Scale in Carbon.  I've currently got an Al bike, and another CF from an XC background is what I'd upgrade too, but it's your money and itch to scratch.  

In reply to The Potato:

The grade of steel is one of the last things you should care about when choosing a bike. Tyres, air pressure, geometry, fit, contact points, intended use and many more things will make a far bigger difference to ride quality. 

Charge bikes did a blind test by building up two bikes exactly the same other than steel grade. No one could tell the difference. 

4130 is cheap, the higher the Renyolds number the more expensive it'll be. That's about the basics of it. 

Set a budget, pick one with a nice colour, ride it. 

In reply to wbo2:

I agree with you on all that Im 72kg, will be using tubeless 29" tyres probably 2.4/2.6" width at about 18-24psi so that will be great, and a decent fork. 

Ive currently got an Aluminium framed HT which is fine just very dated, also have a CF road bike, and a CF rigid trail bike.

Im not against any material in particular, but having met a few people on steel frames they seem to really advocate them.

In reply to The Potato:

Frames made of the same tubing are not necessarily equal. A £400 Taiwanese frame will feel different and probably be a hell of a lot heavier than one handmade by the likes of Enigma or Shand, though at three times the price. Compare the Genesis Croix de Fer and the Brother Cycles Meh-Teh. Both Reynolds 725 so ostensibly the same but there is a substantial weight difference, as well as price.

Stanton and Cotic offer frames in 853, I've had a Stanton and now have a Cotic. Both are a world apart from the admittedly cheap and good handling On-One offerings.

A good steel frame is a thing of joy for anything other than a race bike.

In reply to 65:

good to know thanks, what material is your current Cotic?

In reply to The Potato:

853, just the main triangle I think. It's a Solaris Max. The top tube is oval so it's very stiff laterally but give a bit vertically. I love it.