UKC

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 Alex Riley 02 Feb 2024

If you parkour your 


If you parkour your way up a boulder does it count? An example would be running up a slab to grab the top hold, skipping grim micro crimps along the way.

Yes
23 votes | 0%
No
29 votes | 0%
Nobody gives a fuck
61 votes | 0%
Only if you shout "Parkour" after
31 votes | 0%
If you do it in trainers, then probably yes
7 votes | 0%
Yes, as long as you savagely downgrade it
13 votes | 0%
Yes, but you would acquire negative kudos and be forced to buy everyone a drink in the pub as penance afterwards
5 votes | 0%
Legs are aid
8 votes | 0%
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7
 gooberman-hill 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Alex Riley:

So back in the 80s there were claims that Ron Fawcett's dog could boulder UK 6a. Apparently Big Ron had danced his way up some gritstone slab boulder problem. The dog just took a run at it and joined him.

If it's good enough for Big Ron's dog, it should be good enough for the rest of us!

 john arran 03 Feb 2024
In reply to gooberman-hill:

... in which case I have 'done' The Buckstone Dyno (f7B) after all! 😁

OP Alex Riley 03 Feb 2024
In reply to john arran:

If you use less holds to get up something surely it's better style? 😁

1
 nikoid 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Alex Riley:

Fewer.

6
 Marek 03 Feb 2024
In reply to nikoid:

> Fewer.

Less, since it could be argued that on real rock there are no discrete holds. There's just a continuum of geometry any part of which - from atoms* to ledges - could be used to assist in upward progress. It therefore make sense to treat 'number of holds' on a problem as a floating point number (possibly even a complex number to allow for imaginary holds) rather than as an integer. So 'less' is actually grammatically better than 'fewer' in this case.

* Pex Hill.

Post edited at 12:37
2
 string arms 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Alex Riley:

Less is more?

 deepsoup 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Marek:

> Less, since it could be argued that on real rock there are no discrete holds.

Individual holds clearly are a thing, so you're incorrect on a matter of fact there.  "Fewer holds" is correct.

But grammatically speaking, you're making the argument that 'hold' should be a mass noun, like 'clay'.  (Which can be used to make 'bricks' - if the bricks are a standard size and you have 'less clay' you would have to make 'fewer bricks'.)

If we say for the sake of argument that you're right about there being 'just a continuum of geometry', then that constitutes a convincing argument for saying that the ascent used "less hold".  "Less holds" remains wrong, grammatically, because a mass noun does not take a plural form.

https://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/non-countable_nouns.htm

1
 Marek 03 Feb 2024
In reply to deepsoup:

> ... then that constitutes a convincing argument for saying that the ascent used "less hold".  "Less holds" remains wrong, grammatically, because a mass noun does not take a plural form.

You are of course quite right here. Unless (a) 'holds' is the singular mass noun or (b) English grammar has exceptions or (c) English is a living language and  'anything goes' or (d) climbing has its own jargon above and beyond Standard English.

Actually I quite like 'less hold'.

OP Alex Riley 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Marek:

I'm definitely the worst person to comment on grammar, but I think it could work either way, depending on the definition of hold/s. Especially if holds = area of rock, then less definitely works better than fewer.

 deepsoup 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Marek:

> You are of course quite right here.

Thank you, I am.

> Unless (a) 'holds' is the singular mass noun

You're just being silly now, 'holds' is the plural form of 'hold'.  If we can't agree on that we can't even communicate with each other.

> or  (b).. (c).. (d)..

It's hard to argue with any of them.  I was responding to your very specific and quite technical (but incorrect) argument in your post above.  If you'd gone with (b), (c) or (d) in the first place I wouldn't have bothered to reply.  There's no point clarifying the rules if you refuse to accept that there are any rules.

> Actually I quite like 'less hold'.

Me too.  And it's grammatically correct according to the rules of English grammar if you accept that they actually exist, which is nice.  Looping back to what Alex said, "less hold" is better style.

 Morty 03 Feb 2024
In reply to string arms:

> Less is more?

more or less...

 deepsoup 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Marek:

Oops, sorry, got the tone of that last one wrong.  I was going for something quite light hearted, didn't mean it to be nearly as pompous as it comes across.

 Hooo 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Marek:

Imaginary holds? How does that work? I've relied on imaginary gear many times, but never managed to use an imaginary hold.

Edit: Unless by imaginary holds you mean holds on a plane orthogonal to the plane of the route? I have used those. More commonly known as trees.

Post edited at 19:05
In reply to gooberman-hill:

> So back in the 80s there were claims that Ron Fawcett's dog could boulder UK 6a. Apparently Big Ron had danced his way up some gritstone slab boulder problem. The dog just took a run at it and joined him.

> If it's good enough for Big Ron's dog, it should be good enough for the rest of us!

I think that was Billie, who Gill Kent got custody of. Yes Billie was a phenomenal grit technician

 Marek 03 Feb 2024
In reply to Hooo:

> Imaginary holds? How does that work? I've relied on imaginary gear many times, but never managed to use an imaginary hold.

I find that most hard slab climbs rely on 'imaginary' holds. You just have to BELIEVE that the hold is there long enough to move on to the next one.


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