UKC

After a meeting today arrangements to re-open climbing in the main buttress have been agreed with Manor Adventure.

Access via abseil, as per the previous agreement will be restored once measures including amended signage have been put in place. This should not take long. Notice will be given of the exact open date as soon as this is established. Please avoid visiting the main crag before this date.

In reply to Team BMC:

Good work, thanks team!

In reply to Team BMC:

Well done Jon & team! 

In reply to Team BMC:

Well done, great news.

In reply to Team BMC:

Brilliant, thanks 

In reply to Team BMC:

Good work , something positive to end a tricky week for the bmc.

Anyone know if the ab stations will be back in place? I visited before the current ban and noticed that some had been removed.

In reply to spenser:

For the general climbing community the restoration of the abseil approach is a better outcome than pursuing a legal angle. However, if there had been no prospect of this restored agreement the legal route offered a slim hope of incremental progress, after a lengthy process. But it would not be a straightforward at all.

Prescriptive easement would apply not to climbers in general, only to neighbours of the site (some of whom are climbers). Establishing a general right of way to everyone would involve application for the establishment of a new PROW, which is a totally different and unconnected process. Establishing one would not of itself assist with establishing the other. I have looked into this at another site, with a much simpler case and don't think there is a strong case at Wildcat. For one thing, the new path would not link to another 'way'. The process is very difficult and long winded. My understanding is that due to under resourcing and a backlog of cases any application may not even get looked at for a good few years, let alone settled any time soon. 

Given the nature of the activity on site I can't see the owners ever willingly installing a gate in the fence where the old line of access was. Even a gate with a code would be problematic for various reasons. Climbers have no obvious leverage to impose any solution here either. In simple terms the law is on the side of the owners in terms of denying access. The options are have a war with the owners that goes on for years and has no definite prospect of a favourable outcome, or work with the owners to make the abb approach option work and restart climbing very soon.

Either way I don't think a public debate is helpful, whichever option you favour. I'll ask UKC to remove some posts from this thread later. By all means contact me direct though if you/anyone want to discuss this further though. It is fairly complex and there is more detail to it than I've had time to write here.

In reply to Team BMC:

I was fine with this in principle but what's happened was a bit heavy handed, no?

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:I'm out an about and haven't got time to check edits. Rob also busy with his life (it is the weekend and we are climbers) and made quick edits. Any heavy handedness due to hast and expediency.

In reply to Team BMC:

Maybe the BMC should create a small simple poster explaining what they have achieved and the rules that apply. An A4 printable sheet would suffice. 

If this was sent to me, I would print it off and post it at Awesome Walls Sheffield for all to see. I am sure others will ensure it hits other walls!

It would perhaps help with avoiding the problem experienced last time when people did not know about the agreement. (I am being generous here!)

It could also act as an incentive to non-members to take notice of the BMC and the important access work it does. It may even persuade a few to join?

Maybe even a monthly, simple, update sheet on all the climbing walls notice boards. I am sure they will be more than happy to allow this!

In reply to johncook:

Back in the day the local BMC access reps used to bring in posters with updated access restrictions (usually bird bans or closures under CROW) on a regular basis. These days no reason not to email direct to walls for them to print and display.

In reply to johncook:

I used to take the Peak Area newsletters to the climbing unit in Derby and they were happy to leave them on the front deskn for people to take so probably pushing at an open door there.

In reply to Team BMC:

Is it possible to put signs up on the gate/path explaining the new way to access the crag. That way anyone who didn't know will at least be informed. Apologies if this is already the case, it's been years since I climbed at Wildcat

In reply to Team BMC:

Right. I really don't understand this. The BMC has asked for (and as I understand it succeeded) the removal of posts on a non UKC forum. AFAIK UKC is independent of the BMC.

WTF is going on here. If the posts were not offensive or libellous then this seems like very strange behaviour by UKC.

Could someone from UKC please explain?

In reply to spenser:

The news letters were/are a bit long winded and cover too wide a range. A concise 'climbing' oriented brief resume of recent access works is all that is needed to appeal! People ignore long stuff, but are good for the 20 second burst!

In reply to Andypeak:

Yes, this is one of the measure agreed on Friday

In reply to johncook:

My point was more "they were happy with the newsletter, so would likely support something like this too.

In reply to gooberman-hill:

It's the weekend, we're not omnipresent, and we don't want recently negotiated access agreements to be rescinded as result of what's said on the site whilst we're not able to properly monitor it.

Upon receiving several user reports - and feedback from Jon Fullwood (BMC Access Officer) - regarding the sensitivity of several messages we removed the posts in question, but the issue with removing one or two posts is that it tends to have a knock-on effect to many, many more. If it was heavy handed,that's on me, but it's on me because it is - after all - the weekend and there's only so subtle a job you can be whilst simultaneously trying to take your kids to the swimming pool. 

In light of the above I am going to lock the thread until Monday.