UKC

Fro a two week trip, what are the must do places in Arizona for Trad, Sport and Bouldering? Got the Falcon Guide and downloaded some stuff from Dr Topo, but be nice to hear some personal recommendations for climbing, as we wont' be able to do it all. For example Cochise Stronghold vs Mt Lemmon, which is nicer? Plan on seeing some of the tourist stuff too.

read this thread already

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=233544&v=1#3437427

In reply to Chris F:

I lived 30 miles from the Stronghold for two years. It is a little known gem, in my opinion much better than Lemmon, the rock is nicer and the location better.

There are a number of other great desert venues in the Kerry guide, that's available on line, Mendoza Canyon and Babo come to mind.

Stronghold has a mix of trad, sport, and mixed, cracks, face and step slab, it's absolutely not to be missed.

Note the bird restriction on the Rockfellow group (peregrines) but even if that's out then there's loads of other *** stuff.

The Red Sandstone of Sedona is spectacular but very esoteric, believe me.

The Limestone sport stuff in the north, (some scratty canyon near Flagstaff isn't worth the time. Stick to, and around Cochise and Lemmon

Regards,

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake: Cheers Steve. We will be going Sept / October, so hopefully no bird restrictions.

If by esoteric you mean loose / sandy we might skip Sedona. Why go halfway round to world to die on loose rock when you can do it in your back garden?

Not too keen on more bolted limestone, overdosed on that in Europe already. We will stop off in Flagstaff at some point as we have a freind living there. Are there any Flagstaff Area spots you do recommend?

In reply to Chris F:

Sedona's sandstone is very red and very soft, the face climbing is very scary with gear that will likely explode!The cracks are soft and 'hard' and will consume more cams than any Brit ownes. Abbing off a tower using a couple of buttoneads in soft stuff ain't fun. (but I might be biased)

There is a basalt crag with good jamming and sentry box stemming on the right of the road from Sedona to Flagstaff, can't recall what it's called though, there's limestone sporty stuff around Flagstaff and I believe some bouldering, though I never visited either, so NFD.

If you want to see some piccies drop me a line and I'll send you some of the Stronghold and elsewhere.

Steve

There is of course the Canyon which is to the North of Flagstaff, but you'll spend a lot of time on the road to get there and back. Flagstaff is a nice town though.

In reply to SteveSBlake:

American Fork or something?
Have pmed you.

We will definitely go to Grand Canyon anyway, but routes there don't look too exciting.

In reply to Chris F: As you can see from the Falcon guide Arizona is full of great climbing. September, even possibly into October, could still be a bit early for some of the desert areas, but great for the more northerly/higher altitude crags.As mentioned earlier the Stronghold is a magical area, mostly traditional but with several areas offering sport routes. It is a large and complex area, so finding your way around can be quite difficult. It is pretty far south, so it could still be too warm in your time-frame(we climbed there comfortably in February).Mt. Lemmon has crags for all seasons, just head further up or down the highway with the seasons. In my opinion the quality improved with the altitude, but having said that, there are plenty of excellent climbs in most of the areas, with a good mix of trad and sport. There are alot of roadside or near roadside climbs, but also many that require quite an approach so that solitude can be assured. Given the roadside location of many routes, you can dodge the sun pretty easily, though conditions should be very good in your time period. I find the grades there to be pretty stiff(true for many areas in the state) compared to alot of better-known US areas. If you climb F6b+ish don't miss Steve' Arete, on Hitchcock Pinnacle(I believe)---short but super fun and photogenic---the old "pilot error" ad photo was taken on that route. Moving north the areas around Phoenix will probably be too hot, and really aren't that great(IMHO)anyway. Though there are good routes around The Pond at Queen Creek, and some abrasive routes and tons of bouldering across the street at Oak Flat---climb there while you still can as the area is soon (5 years?) to be closed for mining. The new Tam O'Shanter(or something like that) is in the vicinity, and gets good reviews from its partisans, but I know nothing about it. Further north there is very good climbing around Prescott--a pleasant town. The best, and a relatively unknown gem, is Granite Mountain. It is a massive--about 500' foot formation of excellent granite set on a mountainside, with a great variety of traditional(mostly) multi-pitch routes. A good number of them are absolute classics, with a decent range of grades. The walk-up is a bit steep, but it is worth it, and the weather should be fine during your time period. As mentioned by others, Sedona is fine to look at, and the town and "New Age" vibe are "something else", but the climbing is pretty notorious--a local guidebook is entitled "An Easy Way to Die." But there are still some well-travelled classics--most notably The Mace. Flagstaff is nearby, with cooler temperatures and alot of climbing, though not all of the highest quality. The main limestone area, referred to by others, is "The Pit"--though better than it's name implies,it surely doesn't compare with the Euro-lime areas. Much more unique are the basalt areas. Oak Creak Overlook, on the road up from Sedona, is very accessible, but the actual climbing isn't the best around, though still a good place to get used to the climbing style. The classic area is Paradise Forks, home to many demanding single pitch crack climbs. It is a bit hard to find---there is a good bit of dirt road navigation required, but worth the trouble. The climbs are mostly fairly difficult and very sustained, and, since you have to ab in, it might be worth top-roping(I know this is a naughty word to many)a route or 2 to get the feel for the place before committing yourselves. There is plenty more around, but this should get you started. Have a great trip--its beautiful country--and, yes, the Grand Canyon is worth the trip---it is much more impressive than even the photos can show.

In reply to Removed User: Cheers for the Advice. When I said American Frok earlier I did mean Paradise Fork. When you say Granite Mountain do you mean Granite Mountain, or Little Granite Mountain, as there seems to be a bit of confusion over the name. I know we may be a bit earlier than optimum, but we were limited by work for choice of time off.

For access to some of the places, what vehicle is it worth hiring? is 4WD required, or just a sturdy hire car?

In reply to Chris F: The crag I was recommending was Granite Mountain, outside of Prescott, not Little Granite, which I believe is close to Pheonix. (I've never climbed at the latter, but I belive that it is much smaller and of coarser rock, and will likely also be much too hot)---there are alot of Granite Mountains in the States(I recall there is a so-named obscure mountain range on or near the Arizona/southern California border, for example, where I've also done a few climbs).The route I remember most vividly at Granite Mountain(its been many years), is a combination of Candyland/Coatimundi Whiteout--twin-routes in a giant corner system. I don't remember which we started on and which was the finish--we went up the lower pitches of the left line, then joined the right for its finish---an easy, but incredibly spectacular traverse below a huge roof. The overall grade was 5.9--maybe HVS, 5bish? As for vehicles, a sturdy hire car is fine for most areas---even the back roads into Paradise Fork were in good shape. There are definitely areas where 4WD is helpful to necessary, but not areas that you'd likely get to on a relatively beief first visit. (Once a local friend rented a high-clearance 4WD--even though he had one of his own--to drive what was laughably described as a road in the guide(it was more like a washed-out, steep streambed/talus slope)so that he wouldn't wear out his own vehicle, to get to an obscure canyon near Queen Creek. I'm glad I wasn't with him when he returned the vehicle to the rental agency!!!!). Remember its a very big state, so don't try to do too much in one trip. Once we climbed at areas from Mt. Lemmon to Flagstaff in a week's trip--flying in from the east coast, but normally I try to concentrate on one or 2 areas, especially if you are planning on mixing climbing with touristing.

In reply to Removed User: I was having a look at that Coatimundi Whiteout / Candyland route, looks great.

I hear you on trying to do too much, there is a lot there, so trying to choose the best spots.

Thanks for the advice.

In reply to Chris F: Mt Lemmon is nice, very different to the plains. I spent a few weeks working in Tuscon. Just be careful of the rattlers, bears, swarms of bees...

Seriously when I was there, there was a few kids killed through bee attacks.

I did a few trips out but the main one was to Mt Lemmon, nice trail walking, had a look at a few of the crags. Very much Bush country the area I was in, not as deserty.

In reply to Chris F:

Did the piccies get through?

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake: Sorry steve, yes they did. Look really inspiring. Only concerned about it being too warm at Cochise for pasty Scottish residents.

In reply to Chris F: If it's warm there it will be warm everywhere!

It's 4 to 5000 feet above Tucson'S so will be much the same as Lemmon.

IMHO, Lemmon's not so nice, it's gniess is quite slippy, many of the crags are 'roadside', those that aren't are sometimes difficult to locate etc, and you dont get the 'High Desert' experience.

There's lots of shaded camping in the Stronghold. You don't need a 4WD, just go gently, On the Est side there's a formal campground, with loos etc but the 'wild' camping on the west side (permitted but no facilities) is I think better, you can get to Tombstone easily enough, and Sierra Vista, a substantial town is about 40 mins away. Easy to get supplies etc.

None of the locals I knew ever raved about Granite Mountain, the way they do/did about the Stronghold.

Regds,

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake: Both the Stronghold and Granite Mountain are wonderful places, each worth visiting. Its not surprising that Tucson locals would rave more about the Stronghold than about Granite. I'm sure it would be the reverse with the folks from Prescott. The Stronghold is definitely a much more complex area than Granite, and it is not unknown for parties not to be able to locate their routes, or even the correct formation, but that also adds to the charm of the area. I do think that the Stronghold will be warmer than Granite at that time of year, however if you've got the time try to visit both, you won't be disappointed. I agree that Mt. Lemmon is quite "slippy", and overall not as nice as the 2 above areas, but it is very accessible and has plenty of good routes, so is worth stopping at if passing through Tucson.

In reply to Chris F:

I've only climbed on Phoenix Granite in Arizona. It was worth a visit but will probably be too hot at that time of year and the voracious local real estate people have probably swallowed up a few more of the better crags by now. Also for Phoenix you need a car that can deal with rough roads (drive carefully: remember hire cars wont be insured if you prang on dirt tracks, even 4x4's). A mate did some stuff at Grand Canyon south rim they said was good in summer with obviously magnificent positions.

In reply to Chris F
I will back up Al on his suggestions (hows it going Al by the way?). Paridise forks is a must if you are in Flagstaff, its an easy drive and not hard to find with the guide book. Other options if your staying up there for a while would be a 3-4hr drive to Red Rocks NV or the same to Indian Creek UT.
For some adventure, not a huge drive and you did not hear it from me then get some info on Shiprock in the 4 corners area.

In reply to andy p ross: We are flying in to Vegas, so might do a day at RR, but my girlfriend has been before. Do not fancy Indian Creek much, looks way too strenuous for my liking. Also don't want to spread ourselves too thinly. Might see what i can find on Shiprock, but seem to recall it being in the soft desert sandstone part of the world.

In reply to andy p ross:

Andy,

I'm guessing your Paul's son? If so I corresponded with your dad a bit while I was in the States - (we had mutual friends) tho' never managed to meet up.

How is he?

Steve

What is the general concensus on ropes? Originally thought of just taking an 11mm 60m, but double rope rappels get mentioned quite often. So would it better to take 2 x 9mm 50m ropes, or even a combination 1 x 9mm 50m & 1 x 11mm 50?

In reply to Chris F:
A few photos.

http://web.mac.com/colinmoody/iWeb/Site/Arizona.html

In reply to Chris F:

For the Stronghold I'd take doubles. I usually climbed on a 60m single 9.4 and had a 7mm static to use in conjunction for the abs.

I'm not sure if a 60m single, doubled would get you off Whale Dome or Wasteland Dome, where the absiel is mandatory, As it is for the End Pinnacle of the Rockfellow (Endgame is a must).

Pretty sure a single is adequate for getting off What's my Line. If it's on your list you'd want doubles for Warpaint, as you rap the route and the first pitch is 160' and some of the others long as well.

Don't know about Granite Mountain descents.

Steve

In reply to Chris F: I think that some type of 2 rope combination gives you the most versatility--probably a 60m 11mm and a thinner rope for descents. You can probably get by with 2x9mm 50m on the older classics, but some on some of the more recent routes, the pitch lengths are longer than 50m.

In reply to andy p ross: Hi Andy, yes, all is well here. Haven't made it out your way for a while, mostly climbing in New England--especially around western Mass.--lots of good little crags, with my annual "road trips" now being airborne to Europe. How are you doing? Still at IME? How is your Dad? Give him my regards. To Chris F.--sorry about the brief hijack.