UKC

Righty.

I am in the process of putting together a climbing trip to the Wakhan corridor, north eastern Afghanistan. It is the safe bit before we go any further.

I am going to be hooking up with the guys from Mountain Unity, who run a charity developing tourism as an aid to economic growth. They are at Kendal MFF so say hello to them.


http://www.mountainunity.org/


I have been doing a lot of research into climbing in the Valley, access etc and the MU guys are really friendly and helpful.

So, I am asking if anyone out there is interested in heading out there over the summer of 2010. I am looking at stuff over 6,000m and 7,000m and have a couple of mates intereted already but I thought I would throw it open to the grea and the good on here. We will be hoping to do some surveying and mapping and to that end I am hoping (as a Fellow) to get something agreed with the RGS.

If you are interested, we can catch up at Kendal and also arrange a meet up in the Lakes at one of the huts and run through all the goodies and stuff I have and begin our planning.

If you are interedted then pleae mail me and I will try and pull something together.

Tiddles

John xx

Posted with permission of UKClimbing.com

In reply to John Rushby: ygm

In reply to John Rushby:

The 'SAFE BIT' at what point is any of Afghan classed as 'SAFE'??

In reply to spartan:

Go to Kendal and ask the lads for yourself.

In reply to John Rushby:

I may do that in november. Still not convinced matey.

In reply to spartan:
>

Come on man! Or do you subscribe to the "bombs go off all over all of Afghan all of the time view"?

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

No but I do 'subscribe to' everyone in Afghan owns a firearm and most would sell a Brit to anyone if they could capture one. just saying I wouldn't fancy being in their next video.

What experience have you/they got in the region?

In reply to John Rushby:

interested, but cant meet in the UK (live in japan).

done several trips there already and work in the region.

PM me your ideas.

ishkishim into the corridor is fine. its getting to ishkishims thats iffy - but doable

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:


They don't, but they are sadly going off in Kabul much more now as yesterday showed and I guess you'd have to travel via Kabul? The situation north of Kabul has deteriorated after being pretty good for years. It would be an amazing place to visit, but the current situation is really unstable.

John, is it at all possible to enter via China?

In reply to TobyA:

There is a company called Mountain Unity International set up to promote mountaineering in this area.

By now the guy who set it upDavid James (ex Army) should be living full time in the Wakhan corridor with the purpose of supplying support to expeditions and getting work and money inot the loca comunities.

Websiter is www.mountainunity.org not checked it.

Could be a good first point of contact??

Gary.

In reply to TobyA: You dont go via Kabul or the Panjshir.(well you can but youd have to be insane to do so) In the last few years expeditions have gone in via Dushanbe then down via Ishkishim

In reply to John Rushby:

about as sensible as going sailing in pirate infested waters. fair enough if there was no other climbing anywhere in the world..
people..

In reply to John Rushby: safety in numbers eh?

I've recently finished reading Rory Stewart's book "The Places In Between" about his walk across Afghanistan (during 2001 I think), following part of the old silk road. He met numerous Taliban or ex-Taliban along the way and certainly finished his journey with his life in tact. From what I understand membership to different alliances is often made on a pragmatic basis - in a country that has been in a state of permanent civil war since the 1970s and is considered to be one of the poorest and most undeveloped in the world, relying on poppy production for a third of its GDP. There are certainly no-go areas in the country, but it is a country that appears to me to have a rich and varied culture, as well as geography. And from what I have heard some of the northern provinces are relatively secure with a very low risk of violence.
Pictures I've seen of Afghanistan and stories from friends have given me a real desire to go there. I'd definitely consider it, but I'm no mountaineer. More a low grade rock waif.
Best of luck with your trip and I hope expeditions such as these are one small step in bringing sustainable income and stability to the region.
Hope one day I get to go along myself, sit back and watch a game of Buzkashi.
PS. Would love to see an article on ukc, might make it worth logging on for.

In reply to John Rushby: I was in the same province as the Wakhan last year and it was fine then. Obviously in Afghanistan things can change quite rapidly but this expedition is to an area that's so poor and remote it's remained fairly unaffected by the conflict.

I would love to go, but skint. Still, it's a wonderful idea. I spoke to the Time correspondent who'd been on holiday there, sounds a fantastic place.

In reply to John Rushby: Sure you must be aware but the Sep Mountain Info had quite a bit on the area from 08.

went into Afghanistan via Pakistan many moons ago, post Russian withdrawal, pre the rest.

fantastic people.

not sure i fsncy it now, or see the point terribly.

unless you were doing D.O.E that is...

In reply to John Rushby: Am potentially interested though am highly likely to be constrained by work or lack there of. Can you drop me a line with approximate time duration & costs john?

In reply to John Rushby:

What time are ou thinking of going John?

In reply to Tommy81: There has been a significant change in the last year though, I think that is the real problem. Like Sean says, I'm sure there are specific places which are just too marginal to be important, but Taliban activity has spread all across the country in the last year. For example the small Finnish ISAF contingent had had virtually no contact with insurgents in their sector of Mazar-i-Sharif for years, but this summer have been coming under fire every few days and were hit by an IED that very fortunately didn't kill anyone but did seriously injure two soldiers and destroyed an APC. This is in the German sector, Regional Command North, that was long considered a safe area. That's exactly why the Germans took it, and why the Swedes and Finns decided to send contingents there. It's nowhere near the open warfare in Helmand and Khandahar and other south and eastern regions, but the deterioration in situation in the north is marked. Finland is considering pulling out because of this. But it's happening all over Afghanistan. Some colleagues and myself recently wrote about the national debates around Europe that are resulting from the increase in insecurity in all the regions of Afghanistan if anyone is interested: http://www.upi-fiia.fi/en/publication/89/

I don't want to suggest the Wakhan area is dangerous - I really don't know and the poor people there could desperately do with tourism - just that the situation across Afghanistan has clearly changed in the last year, partly in connection to the election(s). It is unstable in the extreme.

In reply to subalpine: Maybe if we all go together, you know, like an invasion, stick a flag in then job done, SAFE.

But sounds amazing I wish I was free. Good luck to everyone who does go!

Could I also add this for those of you who believe the BBC version of events in that part of the world. Make of this what you will.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/29/content_12357380.htm

In reply to John Rushby:

I'd just go with your two mates. Climbing/travelling in big groups is a pain, especially with people you don't know well. I also wouldn't spend too much time organising it all. Things won't work out as planned. Best just to take it as it comes in my experience.

Enjoy the trip

Neil

In reply to spartan:

This is of course absolute hog-wash, yes there are a LOT of weapons in Afghanistan but the idea that everyone is packing a piece is ridiculous. Especially in somewhere like the Wakhan, people are very very poor up there - they are struggling to buy food never mind bullets.

I think the biggest problem up there is getting caught up in some random violence that has nothing to do with you. I was in the bazaar in Faizabad which was fine, not at all threatening, but my colleague assured me a bomb had killed a few people the previous month.

Try and get a copy of the latest ANSO report for an idea of what's going on...

In reply to John Rushby:

Hi there:

Apart from missing about 99% of the skills necessary to join you I would love to come. Though I am working on the missing 99% bit.

I wish you the best of luck planning and executing the trip and am looking forward to a full report on UK.

If feasible could you do a video blog?

Take care and enjoy the adventure.

In reply to John Rushby:
Sounds like an awesome plan!
I was in Kabul for a week in March (with work - in connection with Rory Stewart's charity) and was stunned by the scenery.
We went for a walk along the city walls, which go up a large hill in the middle of the city and from there we could see stunning snow capped peaks in every direction.
Some guys who were staying in the same accommodation as us were setting off for a horseback expedition from Bamiyan to Mazar-e-sharif while we were there. People clearly do go off into the rural areas with little protection and don't come to any harm.
Good luck with the trip!

There was a beeb news slot about a scottish GP who had moved his family out there. Certainly looked like great peaks and lots of slabs.

Have a good trip

Nick

In reply to John Rushby: Sounds an adventure. Its been a few years since I've flushed out any Caves 'Head down, arse up.' Good Luck!

Ian.

In reply to John Rushby: I currently live in the South of Afghanistan and work in all areas of the country on construction and surveying projects. The situation is constantly changing and although it is not all out war it's very exciting at times. I've not been into the corridor but have been North East of Kabul above Shahr-e-Monjan and although not as worrying as Kandahar, Spin Buldak, Lashkar Gah etc it is still a dangerous place. Don't use the media as your way of assessing the current state of insurgent activity, it is vastly under reported in the western media other than attacks on ISAF etc. You are proposing to go into a very wild area and one that I suspect may be a very nice laying up spot for the Afghan Taliban as they now do not have the comfort of the Pakistan border regions, NWFP etc (which is where they used to withdraw to), thanks to the activities of the Pakistan Taliban in the Swat etc etc and the subsequent counter insurgency operations. Personally I would think long and hard about it. Without weapons and armour, personal contacts in the area and the ability to speak at least some basic local language or have a translator I would not go.

Afghanistan is one of the most beautiful countries I have ever visited and has some of the most friendly people who want nothing more than to live quiet peaceful lives. I often looked up at some absolutely amazing mountains wishing I could go and climb them, right in between being f**king shoot at and blown up! ARE YOU MAD? Do people in this country have no idea what so ever what is going on out there? Phrases like 'they are so poor they'd sooner buy food than bullets' that my well be true but they'd sell your head on stick for $10 make no mistake about it! Afghanistan does desperately need foreign investment but I really don't think a few climbers coming over for a bit of an extra adrenaline rush and to be the big chat at Kendal is really what’s needed. How about instead you do something for the soldiers of your country who are coming back with horrendous injuries, many of whom come from poor inner city backgrounds, a chance to explore the mountains and experience the outdoors? But then that would not make for such good chat on Ukclimbing would it?

There is one thing I have learnt in the last 6 months and that the best people to help Afghanistan are the Afghan's. Now a joint Afghan/UK team to scale a 8000er in a country that’s not in the middle of civil war might indeed be an achievement that the whole people of Afghanistan could take great pride in and at the same time raise awareness FOR THEMSELVES of what’s happening in their country!

In reply to kenneM: Hi KenneM, I'm reading between the lines and guessing you have served with the military in Afghanistan. I served on two tours and recognised that although the war against the Taliban was decisively won in 2002 the peace was subsequently squandered.

Now the presence of international troops just makes the Afghans angry. Afghanistan is a big country and it is not all like Helmand.

I now live in the Wakhan Corridor in the very far north east of the country and have had an amazing reception from the local people.

Have a look at the YouTube video below for the experiences of some of the people who have already visited us.

youtube.com/watch?v=B2rwUWpZz_k&

I'm not for a second suggesting Afghanistan is safe, but I am saying the Wakhan has, so far, remained entirely free of the violence that has affected other parts. The local people remember the good times in the 1960s and 70s when climbers regularly came to the area and they are keen for mountaineers to return.

There has already been a number of expeditions including this year's Afghan / French successful ascent of Noshaq, the country's highest mountain and an Afghan / Brit / Kiwi exped that made a first ascent.

In reply to David James - MUI: Fantastic article in Summit 56...best thing in there for ages

In reply to John Rushby:

By sheer coincidence a friend of mine has just sent me 4 pdf scans of an articles exactly on the same subject, from a magazine called Summit (BMC?). It mentions the same organisation that you were in touch with. For those who haven't access to the article the way in is through Tajikistan and said to be totally safe... the visas required, for both countries seem a bit expensive and off putting though! It was far cheaper when I went there in 1970. We were further South in Nuristan, which looks a bit dodgy at present still!

In 74 I visited the N of Pakistan and we were just South of the border from the Wakhan corridor, nearly up to the Chinese border... both superb spots, nice people and, as said in the article, absolutely superb weather, blue skies all the time in summer. Take a helmet though as the rock fall is very bad... and a bit of baccy too as substances to "enhance" this are widely and freely available

In reply to John Rushby:

I concur with the posters above, the Summit article on climbing in Afghanistan is great. I'd love to go.

In reply to John Rushby:

ive done several trips in afghanistan over the last 10 years, mostly into wakhan and nuristan.

nowadays its gotta be via tajikistan as the route thru khyber and jalalabad is pretty dubious.
the previous crossings thru lowari in chitral and northern NWFP are also dubious and probably no longer open to foreigners.

there is a possibility of entering wakhan from the chupersan, but it needs a lot of redtape untangling down in islamabad with time-consuming checks from kabul. even then it can always go sour actually at the border. if it works out tho, its way way easier than going thru khorog and ishkashim.

as said above, wakhan is outside of the whole 'afghanistan' thing.
true, the nastiness has crept closer over the last 3 years with kunduz getting less secure, but it hasnt spread any further.
ishkashim has the occasional flare up but its not really directly part of the whole greater security issue - the areas so ethnically diverse that tension has gotten out of hand periodically for decades.

the tajikistan route is rough but a great route in itself. getting to tajikistan is a mish-mash of odd flights and/or epic overland routes. its a cool country with a weird place in history and global politics.

the usual remote area climbing stuff applies: high level self sufficiency, zero evac options, high reliance on local liasons, hygiene etc.

what tajikistan/wakhan has that sets it apart from almost anywhere else is the exit plan. no heading back down to namche for a shower or lhasa to a 4 star, then an easy flight homw.
its the whole long process again, tho this time exhausted.
its totally doable, just factor in enough realistic time and contingencies.

In reply to John Rushby:

Bah, I only wish I could but by no means am I a good enough climber. Hope everything goes to plan and you pull it off, John.

In reply to John Rushby:

Really interesting website and i thoroughly enjoyed reading the recent article in Summit magezine.

Whilst i am hoping to embark on adventures of my own, undoubtedly taking me to afghanistan, in the next year or two, I genuinely hope that Afghanistan is restored to peace and security. I would relish the oportunity to visit the Wakhan province in the future to throw myself at the mountaineering challanges which seem to be in abundence in the wakhan province.

I admire the work that Mountain Unity and your own company are doing out in what must be a difficult environment (political, social, economic) and hope that your endevours come to fruition.

In reply to ice.solo:

Where did you go in Nuristan? Are the carved wood houses still standing? We went in by driving up from the South along the border then turned left to Barge Matel.

I was surprised to see that this was a taliban trouble spot as when I went there they didn't seem very islamic, in fact they had only been forcibly converted to islam a few decades before and the women were uncovered, no mosques visible... Is it the locals causing problems or people from across the border in Pakistan?

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

i was there pre-current issues (ie pre-9/11 etc) and crossed from swat and dir. at that time the border was uncontrolled by either pakistan or the afghans (tho there was a 'private' road block)
we were doing survey stuff for the UN and other agencies and mostly visiting villages (many semi-nomadic) that were often cut off seasonally and used a network of high passes. not climbing as such.

i dont recall visiting barge matel tho have heard about it with recent hubub. maybe its called by other names??

yep, still kalasha buildings about. had the feeling nothings much changed for centuries. dont know about now tho...

i too find it hard to imagine as being taliban affected. for a start its not an easy place to get into.
across in kalam they are protected, and seem much more pagan than the nuristanis we were with (tho they have bollywood).
im surprised anyone really bothers them. maybe there is some local issue, or as you say, from the chitrali side where islamist groups - not necessariliy pro-taliban tho - are fermenting.
if anything it may be a case of collision between ismaili groups and the pashtun/chitrali sunnis (similar to what goes on in gilgit). the areas becoming of more strategic value as an unwatched door across the border and swat gets locked down. maybe a conduit to the tajik (ismaili/shia) areas further north??
its a complex region.

In reply to ice.solo: Thanks for the info ice. It would be good to meet up and get a down load about what you've learnt over the last 10 years. We are now based in Ishkashim and should have a welcome centre open next year. We aim to be the first point of contact and then pass people on to Afghan businesses.

There are now some dirt airstrips in the Wakhan which are used by NGOs. If we can find a commercial charter it would make the route in via Kabul viable again. Safi Airways are planning a non stop Heathrow to Kabul which would be great. But for now you are right, arrive from Dushanbe in Tajikistan only.

We will also try and get an emergency evac organisation involved and are in very early contact with some mountain rescue types who could do some kind of Afghan capaciy building....

In reply to David James - MUI: Actually worth mentioning we did get a couple of NGO types med-evaced out via the dirt airstrips due to illness so it is possible if anyone gets hurt.

In reply to John Rushby

After that why don't you arrange a boozing trip with the gay and lesbian Chiristian society to Saudi Arabia?

In reply to John Rushby: There are great routes across the Pakistan border in Chitral which are much less political/security hassle. Direct flight to Islamabad, then bus or internal plane. If you avoid the big hotels in Islamabad and stay in a guest house - as I just have for 16 days - it's really fine.

In reply to John Rushby: We've now set up a premier post to answer specific questions to support expeditions coming to the Wakhan in 2010.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=384296

Thanks for your interest. David

In reply to David James - MUI:

To take some pressure of David, who undoubtedly recieves a bucketful of questions regarding Wakhan, I would be happy to answer any questions regarding visiting the Wakhan and the organisation involved for a trip there.

Myself and 4 others spent a month this summer climbing in the Afghan Hindu Kush and also exploring north of the Wakhan in the Afghan Great Pamir. If there are specific questions regarding the climbing, then our trip leader, Joel Fiddes, is better placed to answer, and I can forward to him. Anything else, send my way. Just a quick note on safety. I had the inevitable concerns and apprehensions before visiting, but in our experience, safety was never an issue. If you are climbing, the mountain is what you should worry about, not the people.

Cheers and get out there!!!

Sam

Please can further replies and questions be made to the Premier Post

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=384296

This is a long-term 6 month post that UKC have set up with David to support his efforts. It will be more useful for future posters if questions and answers are kept on this Premier Post.

Thanks

Alan