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Assuming i have all the gear, how can i keep the cost down on an alpine climbing trip? I was thinking of going to the Sass valley in Switzerland during next years summer season, but not sure on how much i'm going to need to save. Locations/routes, flights and other expenses ideas please.Thanks.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Don't drink,
Don't take cable cars
Don't stay in huts
there that's probably saved you £150-400 for a 2 week trip
Don't drink,
Don't take cable cars
Don't stay in huts
there that's probably saved you £150-400 for a 2 week trip
In reply to Frank4short: And maybe try Italy rather than Switzerland
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: Saas valley was really expensive this year: uplift and hut for a 4000m peak worked out about £100 a time.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: Head to France or Italy (generally cheaper than Switzerland), and head to somewhere where the climbing isn't lift accessed (you can of course walk up under lifts but they are hard to resist!). Obvious candidate would be the Ecrins, basing yourself at either Ailfroide or la Berade, lots of routes of all types to go at + good valley cragging/bouldering, reliably good weather, hitching very easy and a lack of bars to drain your wallet... good luck.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: Go camp in Ailefroide.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Zermatt was really expensive I found <last month> a coffee is around a fiver, 6 or 7 quid for a beer, even more in posher bars or a late bar, Cables can be reduced a lot with the swiss card 50% off. I'm railway staff and was delighted that my cables were 50% off with my international staff card. you can get the cable car prices off the net so you can work out if you'll save by buying a swiss card, example - Zermatt to Swartzee <Matterhorn/hornli hut> was 58 CHF, about 50 quid? It was prob a 3 hour walk up and return it saved though so worth the cost if you want to maximise climbing. Water was very dear in the hornli hut, prob because it has to be choppered in. We carried ours up that we got from the supermarket as too food, we just bought cupnoodle type things and had a tiny stove for heating water for food and brews.
Zermatt was really expensive I found <last month> a coffee is around a fiver, 6 or 7 quid for a beer, even more in posher bars or a late bar, Cables can be reduced a lot with the swiss card 50% off. I'm railway staff and was delighted that my cables were 50% off with my international staff card. you can get the cable car prices off the net so you can work out if you'll save by buying a swiss card, example - Zermatt to Swartzee <Matterhorn/hornli hut> was 58 CHF, about 50 quid? It was prob a 3 hour walk up and return it saved though so worth the cost if you want to maximise climbing. Water was very dear in the hornli hut, prob because it has to be choppered in. We carried ours up that we got from the supermarket as too food, we just bought cupnoodle type things and had a tiny stove for heating water for food and brews.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: Everthing is Switzerland is pricey, particularly now. Try Italy. It has a lot of small bivouac huts that are cheap or free but using them means you can avoid lugging bivouc gear around with you. Share a tent if camping as you are often charged per tent as well as per person. Use public transport - cheap in Italy. Avoid cable-cars.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: dont you fancy driving down and wild camping? I`ve done that before and it was way cheaper than anything else, if you get a cheap 2 burner cooker off the bay, you can cook all your meals really easily, plus having a car means easy transport and all your gear is safeish whilst locked up in the car.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
>"I was thinking of going to the Sass valley in Switzerland"
In the ten years I've been going there, I've seen the exchange rate go from £1 buys 2.44CHF to £1 buys 1.38CHF
That's an increase in relitive costs of 77% from an already high base before you start to look at what inflation has done.
Switzerland is not the place to go if you are on tight a budget.
That said it's a great place, you should save up and go.
The cost of flights depends where you live but I guess you'd get from a London Airport to Geneva or Zurich for £150 return.
Train/bus transfer ticket and lift discount card cost about £130.
If you're on a budget it probably makes sense to join the Austian alpine club (uk branch) for rescue insurance and hut use discount - I'm not sure how much this costs but it's a good deal though you should bear in mind the insurance cover isn't as good as the BMC.
Not that I've done it, but biving near the huts, treating yourself to the odd meal from a hut and the odd night in a B&B to get cleaned up would probaly work out the cheapest option but you'd need to be fairly tough to stick that out for more than a couple of weeks. Also it rained a lot this year which would have been pretty miserable for biving.
>"I was thinking of going to the Sass valley in Switzerland"
In the ten years I've been going there, I've seen the exchange rate go from £1 buys 2.44CHF to £1 buys 1.38CHF
That's an increase in relitive costs of 77% from an already high base before you start to look at what inflation has done.
Switzerland is not the place to go if you are on tight a budget.
That said it's a great place, you should save up and go.
The cost of flights depends where you live but I guess you'd get from a London Airport to Geneva or Zurich for £150 return.
Train/bus transfer ticket and lift discount card cost about £130.
If you're on a budget it probably makes sense to join the Austian alpine club (uk branch) for rescue insurance and hut use discount - I'm not sure how much this costs but it's a good deal though you should bear in mind the insurance cover isn't as good as the BMC.
Not that I've done it, but biving near the huts, treating yourself to the odd meal from a hut and the odd night in a B&B to get cleaned up would probaly work out the cheapest option but you'd need to be fairly tough to stick that out for more than a couple of weeks. Also it rained a lot this year which would have been pretty miserable for biving.
In reply to JLS:
Talking of flights, we flew easyjet MAN to Zurich. For £25 you can have a 'sports equipment' allocation. Anything from golf clubs to skis I guess. We took a huge kitbag with all the climbing gear, boots, axes, poles, ropes etc
Talking of flights, we flew easyjet MAN to Zurich. For £25 you can have a 'sports equipment' allocation. Anything from golf clubs to skis I guess. We took a huge kitbag with all the climbing gear, boots, axes, poles, ropes etc
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Don't go to Switzerland
Hitch. Even if you don't hitch down there, hitching around the Alps is usually quite easy, just look like a climber with your rope visible.
Bivi in the mountains, don't use huts (exept free bivi huts).
Camp wild in the valley, just wander out of town into nearby woods.
Wash in pulic toilets, or some campsites will let you use their showers for a small fee (hint: climbers have even been known to sneak into campsite showers without paying)
Cook all your own food, don't eat out. Likewise don't drink out in bars. Buy food that's cheap locally not what you would necessarily buy here.
Walk, don't use cable cars. Having said that, whilst I've done all the above, I've always regarded cable cars as the one luxury I'm preapred to shell out for. You've gone there to climb and they maximise your climbing time. Using them may also allow you to still use your knees in middle age and beyond.
Don't go to Switzerland
Hitch. Even if you don't hitch down there, hitching around the Alps is usually quite easy, just look like a climber with your rope visible.
Bivi in the mountains, don't use huts (exept free bivi huts).
Camp wild in the valley, just wander out of town into nearby woods.
Wash in pulic toilets, or some campsites will let you use their showers for a small fee (hint: climbers have even been known to sneak into campsite showers without paying)
Cook all your own food, don't eat out. Likewise don't drink out in bars. Buy food that's cheap locally not what you would necessarily buy here.
Walk, don't use cable cars. Having said that, whilst I've done all the above, I've always regarded cable cars as the one luxury I'm preapred to shell out for. You've gone there to climb and they maximise your climbing time. Using them may also allow you to still use your knees in middle age and beyond.
In reply to JLS:
I'm not certain on this, but I think foreign Alpine club membership only gets you mountain rescue. If you then need hospital treatment you'll still need travel insurance and unless its mountaineering insurance it won't cover for mountaineering related injuries or illnesses.
Compare Snowcard insurance prices with the BMC as if you're not already a BMC member you'll have to join.
>
> If you're on a budget it probably makes sense to join the Austian alpine club (uk branch) for rescue insurance and hut use discount - I'm not sure how much this costs but it's a good deal though you should bear in mind the insurance cover isn't as good as the BMC. >
> If you're on a budget it probably makes sense to join the Austian alpine club (uk branch) for rescue insurance and hut use discount - I'm not sure how much this costs but it's a good deal though you should bear in mind the insurance cover isn't as good as the BMC. >
I'm not certain on this, but I think foreign Alpine club membership only gets you mountain rescue. If you then need hospital treatment you'll still need travel insurance and unless its mountaineering insurance it won't cover for mountaineering related injuries or illnesses.
Compare Snowcard insurance prices with the BMC as if you're not already a BMC member you'll have to join.
In reply to pec: AAC covers hospital treatment to a point, rescue and repatriation, but you'll still need an EHIC card and a travel insurance policy.
OP: Don't go to Switzerland; the price difference between, for example, Sion and Chamonix was astounding. Sion was double the price of Chamonix for some stuff, and it was not just down to the exchange rate either.
However, Switzerland is a lovely country to visit in spite of this.
OP: Don't go to Switzerland; the price difference between, for example, Sion and Chamonix was astounding. Sion was double the price of Chamonix for some stuff, and it was not just down to the exchange rate either.
However, Switzerland is a lovely country to visit in spite of this.
In reply to pec:
AAC membership covers you for "Medically necessary treatment (including medically necessary transportation to a hospital) abroad, up to
EUR 7,500." Rescue costs are covered up to a total of EUR 22,000.
AAC membership covers you for "Medically necessary treatment (including medically necessary transportation to a hospital) abroad, up to
EUR 7,500." Rescue costs are covered up to a total of EUR 22,000.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I'd definitely recomend going to Italy! I have spent the last 2 summers in the Alps, Switzerland, France and Italy.
This year the increase in cost in switzerland was crazy. Unless you are going to walk in to each route, camp / bivy and only purchase food from large supermarkets, i wouldn't even consider Switzerland.
Italy on the other hand was perfectly reasonable, a lift up to 3000 odd meters was only 30 euro return and if you were going to use them, the huts weren't too bad either. Strongly recomend Italy around Staffal access to Monte Rosa Massive, Liskam, Pollus Castore all the usual swiss mountains, just from the other side and much cheaper.
I'd definitely recomend going to Italy! I have spent the last 2 summers in the Alps, Switzerland, France and Italy.
This year the increase in cost in switzerland was crazy. Unless you are going to walk in to each route, camp / bivy and only purchase food from large supermarkets, i wouldn't even consider Switzerland.
Italy on the other hand was perfectly reasonable, a lift up to 3000 odd meters was only 30 euro return and if you were going to use them, the huts weren't too bad either. Strongly recomend Italy around Staffal access to Monte Rosa Massive, Liskam, Pollus Castore all the usual swiss mountains, just from the other side and much cheaper.
In reply to John Ww:
I'd second that. There are some great mountains in the Austrian Alps which are sadly neglected these days by Brits who flock to the hot spots of Cham and Zermatt.
Join the Austrian Alpine Club for discounts on hut fees.
> (In reply to Mr-Cowdrey)
>
> Go to Austria - miles cheaper than Switzerland or France.
>
> Go to Austria - miles cheaper than Switzerland or France.
I'd second that. There are some great mountains in the Austrian Alps which are sadly neglected these days by Brits who flock to the hot spots of Cham and Zermatt.
Join the Austrian Alpine Club for discounts on hut fees.
In reply to fromthesouth:
Those figures demonstrate my point perfectly.
How much hospital treatment does 7,500 Euros buy you?
Likewise 22,000 Euros for search and rescue?
Answer, very little.
> AAC membership covers you for "Medically necessary treatment (including medically necessary transportation to a hospital) abroad, up to
> EUR 7,500." Rescue costs are covered up to a total of EUR 22,000. >
> EUR 7,500." Rescue costs are covered up to a total of EUR 22,000. >
Those figures demonstrate my point perfectly.
How much hospital treatment does 7,500 Euros buy you?
Likewise 22,000 Euros for search and rescue?
Answer, very little.
In reply to pec:
in switzerland it isn't enough, france or italy it should be enough unless they have increased prices for those things. The ehic card covers a lot
> Those figures demonstrate my point perfectly.
> How much hospital treatment does 7,500 Euros buy you?
> Likewise 22,000 Euros for search and rescue?
> Answer, very little.
> How much hospital treatment does 7,500 Euros buy you?
> Likewise 22,000 Euros for search and rescue?
> Answer, very little.
in switzerland it isn't enough, france or italy it should be enough unless they have increased prices for those things. The ehic card covers a lot
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: thanks everyone for all the advice, i'm thinking more about Italy now, what place ideas and routes would anyone suggest, anything upto PD+/AD-
In reply to Hannes:
If you are an EU national you are covered by EHIC in Switzerland too. But you have to make sure that you are treated by a state healthcare provider. Private sector does not approve EHIC. 7500 euros in a state hospital covers a lot in Switzerland.
And 22 000 euros is usually enough for Search & Rescue in Switzerland. In France and Italy it's free of charge if it's a proper climbing accident.
> in switzerland it isn't enough,
If you are an EU national you are covered by EHIC in Switzerland too. But you have to make sure that you are treated by a state healthcare provider. Private sector does not approve EHIC. 7500 euros in a state hospital covers a lot in Switzerland.
And 22 000 euros is usually enough for Search & Rescue in Switzerland. In France and Italy it's free of charge if it's a proper climbing accident.
In reply to Hannes:
7,500 euros might get you 2 or 3 nights in hospital but it won't get you any surgery as well.
22,000 would easily cover a straightforward airlift but keeping a helicopter and crew airborne for any length of time is a costly business. If they have to spend a day searching for you the cost could well exceed 22K.
My Snowcard policy has £10,000,000 cover for rescue and medical expenses, the BMC is similar. There's areason for that.
> in switzerland it isn't enough, france or italy it should be enough unless they have increased prices for those things. The ehic card covers a lot >
7,500 euros might get you 2 or 3 nights in hospital but it won't get you any surgery as well.
22,000 would easily cover a straightforward airlift but keeping a helicopter and crew airborne for any length of time is a costly business. If they have to spend a day searching for you the cost could well exceed 22K.
My Snowcard policy has £10,000,000 cover for rescue and medical expenses, the BMC is similar. There's areason for that.
In reply to Juki:
You must be joking. I had 1 night in a Swiss hospital 12 years ago. No additional treatment except a saline drip and a chest X ray. It cost £3,000 (at that time the equivalent of over 4,000 euros) back then.
> 7500 euros in a state hospital covers a lot in Switzerland. >
You must be joking. I had 1 night in a Swiss hospital 12 years ago. No additional treatment except a saline drip and a chest X ray. It cost £3,000 (at that time the equivalent of over 4,000 euros) back then.
In reply to Juki:
Just an example that my climbing insurance covers only 1500 euros of the medical treatments and 11 000 euros of SAR. But I'm very happy with it because of the EHIC.
For normal tourist trips I do have a standard travel insurance so that I can choose any private clinic I want for minor medical problems.
Just an example that my climbing insurance covers only 1500 euros of the medical treatments and 11 000 euros of SAR. But I'm very happy with it because of the EHIC.
For normal tourist trips I do have a standard travel insurance so that I can choose any private clinic I want for minor medical problems.
In reply to pec:
EHIC. The magic word is EHIC. Find out what that means and you do realize that I'm not joking. I've lived in Switzerland and I have visited their hospitals few times.
> You must be joking. I had 1 night in a Swiss hospital 12 years ago. No additional treatment except a saline drip and a chest X ray. It cost £3,000 (at that time the equivalent of over 4,000 euros) back then.
EHIC. The magic word is EHIC. Find out what that means and you do realize that I'm not joking. I've lived in Switzerland and I have visited their hospitals few times.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
There are several areas depending on how big you want the mountains to be!
Courmeyeur (for the Mont Blanc massif), Gran Paradiso area, Cervinia and other valleys further East (for the Pennine Alps) or further East still for smaller mountains like the Bernina and Bregalia.
The best place to go may depend on whether you've got a car.
> (In reply to Mr-Cowdrey) thanks everyone for all the advice, i'm thinking more about Italy now, what place ideas and routes would anyone suggest, anything upto PD+/AD- >
There are several areas depending on how big you want the mountains to be!
Courmeyeur (for the Mont Blanc massif), Gran Paradiso area, Cervinia and other valleys further East (for the Pennine Alps) or further East still for smaller mountains like the Bernina and Bregalia.
The best place to go may depend on whether you've got a car.
In reply to Juki:
EHIC gets you some limited treatment. Suppose you're caught out in a storm and the helicopter has to spend 3 days trying to find you, flying when it can between bouts of bad weather. When they find you you're badly injured and require major surgery and a week in hospital. Suppose also that when they pull you off the hill you're unconscious or pass out in the chopper (as I did). You're not in any position to start weighing up which hospital they take you to. You'll get taken where you get taken.
Those sums you're covered for are way too small. You might be happy taking the gamble, its highly unlikely you'll ever need it but when the shit hits the fan you don't want a bill for a few 10's of thousands.Insurance is for the costs you just can't absorb.
Like I said, there's a reason why snowcard and the BMC give the levels of cover they do.
I wasn't making up the £3,000 for a straightforward night in hospital 12 years ago.
> EHIC. The magic word is EHIC. Find out what that means and you do realize that I'm not joking. I've lived in Switzerland and I have visited their hospitals few times. >
EHIC gets you some limited treatment. Suppose you're caught out in a storm and the helicopter has to spend 3 days trying to find you, flying when it can between bouts of bad weather. When they find you you're badly injured and require major surgery and a week in hospital. Suppose also that when they pull you off the hill you're unconscious or pass out in the chopper (as I did). You're not in any position to start weighing up which hospital they take you to. You'll get taken where you get taken.
Those sums you're covered for are way too small. You might be happy taking the gamble, its highly unlikely you'll ever need it but when the shit hits the fan you don't want a bill for a few 10's of thousands.Insurance is for the costs you just can't absorb.
Like I said, there's a reason why snowcard and the BMC give the levels of cover they do.
I wasn't making up the £3,000 for a straightforward night in hospital 12 years ago.
In reply to pec:
No it doesn't. It gives you the same treatment as the locals get. And in Switzerland that means very good treatment compared to other state funded hospitals.
If that happens they will _not_ take you to a private hospital. Cantonal hospital is your delivery address. Like if you are in a car accident near Geneva the rescue staff won't send you to fancy private hospitals like La Tour or Generale Beaulieu, instead they will ship you to HUG.
> EHIC gets you some limited treatment.
No it doesn't. It gives you the same treatment as the locals get. And in Switzerland that means very good treatment compared to other state funded hospitals.
> Suppose you're caught out in a storm and the helicopter has to spend 3 days trying to find you, flying when it can between bouts of bad weather. When they find you you're badly injured and require major surgery and a week in hospital. Suppose also that when they pull you off the hill you're unconscious or pass out in the chopper (as I did).
If that happens they will _not_ take you to a private hospital. Cantonal hospital is your delivery address. Like if you are in a car accident near Geneva the rescue staff won't send you to fancy private hospitals like La Tour or Generale Beaulieu, instead they will ship you to HUG.
> I wasn't making up the £3,000 for a straightforward night in hospital 12 years ago.
I'm not saying that you are lying. I do believe that it's true. But local people do _not_ pay that much if they are staying in a state funded hospital.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
If you camp in Staffal, you have access to the Mote Rosa Massive, where you can bivy out by the Gnifetti hut, and in 1 long day or 2 days bag, Zumsteinspitze, Signalkuppe, Parotspitz, Ludwigshoe, Coro Nerro, Piramide Vincent all of which go at PD. There's stunning views to Monte Rosa. If you stayed in the hut you could even make an ascent of Monte Rosa / duforspitz, but at 4500 odd meters i wouldn't fancy bivying!
Back to Gnifetti Hut and either return to Staffal, or traverse Liskam (AD) to the Quinta Stella Hut and bivy. Then do Castore (F) and down NW Flank (PD), Pollux bivying at Guide D'ayas hut or stay in the refuge by the Roccia Nerra. Next day do the Breithorn Traverse East - West (AD. Walk off down to Cervina and get bus back to Staffal.
I was stunned at how easy and accessible this area was!
If you camp in Staffal, you have access to the Mote Rosa Massive, where you can bivy out by the Gnifetti hut, and in 1 long day or 2 days bag, Zumsteinspitze, Signalkuppe, Parotspitz, Ludwigshoe, Coro Nerro, Piramide Vincent all of which go at PD. There's stunning views to Monte Rosa. If you stayed in the hut you could even make an ascent of Monte Rosa / duforspitz, but at 4500 odd meters i wouldn't fancy bivying!
Back to Gnifetti Hut and either return to Staffal, or traverse Liskam (AD) to the Quinta Stella Hut and bivy. Then do Castore (F) and down NW Flank (PD), Pollux bivying at Guide D'ayas hut or stay in the refuge by the Roccia Nerra. Next day do the Breithorn Traverse East - West (AD. Walk off down to Cervina and get bus back to Staffal.
I was stunned at how easy and accessible this area was!
In reply to birdman: Rather than miserable bivi right by a very comfortable hut, there is the possibility of using the Balmenhorn Bivouac hut. This is only semi-miserable.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
If you're thinking Italy, I can recommend Gran Paradiso for a first alpine trip (it's where I had mine a couple of years ago). Cheap to get to, nice reasonably priced campsite at the end of the valley. No lifts to tempt you. Enough good easier routes to keep you occupied for a couple of weeks.
If you're thinking Italy, I can recommend Gran Paradiso for a first alpine trip (it's where I had mine a couple of years ago). Cheap to get to, nice reasonably priced campsite at the end of the valley. No lifts to tempt you. Enough good easier routes to keep you occupied for a couple of weeks.
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