This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I've heard that it doesn't see much traffic and as I don't have a guide to hand wondered which the best route/s up this face are to a TD maybe ED- level. (I'd be after an ice route).
I saw a good looking ramp/couloir line to the left of the face below the hornli arete that seemed to finish on snow covered slabs at the top and it didn't look too hard.
Any advice or recommendations welcome.
I'd probably go for an early ascent next spring (April) to avoid too much of the rock fall coming from the numpties on the hornli as I can imagine it's similar to the gouter approach in terms of fast flying hard objects coming down.
I saw a good looking ramp/couloir line to the left of the face below the hornli arete that seemed to finish on snow covered slabs at the top and it didn't look too hard.
Any advice or recommendations welcome.
I'd probably go for an early ascent next spring (April) to avoid too much of the rock fall coming from the numpties on the hornli as I can imagine it's similar to the gouter approach in terms of fast flying hard objects coming down.
In reply to billy.granty:
Been done on here a few times in the past.
http://www.lotharklingel.de/alpin/Matterhorn/index.htm
This has some good photos of the Schmidt Route which is the classic route up the face.
It seems the main difficulties are route finding and the precarious and serious nature of the climbing (ie. lousy rock quality - retreat not appealing). Looking at your profile, I'd want to have an awful lot more experience on relatively big routes before committing myself to an undertaking like this.
Been done on here a few times in the past.
http://www.lotharklingel.de/alpin/Matterhorn/index.htm
This has some good photos of the Schmidt Route which is the classic route up the face.
It seems the main difficulties are route finding and the precarious and serious nature of the climbing (ie. lousy rock quality - retreat not appealing). Looking at your profile, I'd want to have an awful lot more experience on relatively big routes before committing myself to an undertaking like this.
In reply to Andy Hobson:
I hadn't read his profile before, ROFLMAO.
As you say, must try harder on routes. Wonder if he has got contract hire on bivvi sites on routes?
I hadn't read his profile before, ROFLMAO.
As you say, must try harder on routes. Wonder if he has got contract hire on bivvi sites on routes?
In reply to sutty:
I only looked at the 'best onsights' bit - just read the rest of it now - Christ on a bike!
Billy - this is a route that needs to be treated with respect. Build up some solid experience first.
I only looked at the 'best onsights' bit - just read the rest of it now - Christ on a bike!
Billy - this is a route that needs to be treated with respect. Build up some solid experience first.
In reply to Andy Hobson: That thought had occurred!
I'm just keen to push myself a bit (not too much) next spring and want to do as much as possible. It's just I saw it from the Obergabelhorn and it was rather inticing but looked hellish to say the least.
I just know very little about it as I'm caught in a bit of a Chamonix bubble.
Do you know what the other routes up the face are like?
I'm just keen to push myself a bit (not too much) next spring and want to do as much as possible. It's just I saw it from the Obergabelhorn and it was rather inticing but looked hellish to say the least.
I just know very little about it as I'm caught in a bit of a Chamonix bubble.
Do you know what the other routes up the face are like?
In reply to billy.granty:
I know the 'Chamonix Bubble' feeling and know why you'd want to get out of it.
Why not use it to your advantage though and get some of the easier faces done around there? There's no shortage of stuff to go at in the Valley, and on solid rock. Kick off with stuff like the Tour Ronde and take it from there.
As to the Matterhorn, I don't have my guide to hand, but I'm pretty sure the Schmidt is the easiest way up the north face. What about something like the Zmutt Ridge instead? Still pretty long and committing (unless it's been equipped with fixed ropes by now) but a good deal easier, at least according to the guide.
I know the 'Chamonix Bubble' feeling and know why you'd want to get out of it.
Why not use it to your advantage though and get some of the easier faces done around there? There's no shortage of stuff to go at in the Valley, and on solid rock. Kick off with stuff like the Tour Ronde and take it from there.
As to the Matterhorn, I don't have my guide to hand, but I'm pretty sure the Schmidt is the easiest way up the north face. What about something like the Zmutt Ridge instead? Still pretty long and committing (unless it's been equipped with fixed ropes by now) but a good deal easier, at least according to the guide.
In reply to Andy Hobson: I know. I want to do the tour ronde but it seems like a long way to walk for not very much climbing. I'll probably do it in the spring though.
I'm probably just falling into the trap of wanting to do too much too young! but i've got ambition.
The thing I find is that climbing with your contemporaries is not a good thing and it's quite hard to find people to climb with who are much more experienced than me which is what I really need.
Last summer was a pain because of the weather and when it started getting good in August I'd already left Chamonix. I really want to try and do the swiss route on the courtes as it's not unbelievably long and the descent should be in good skiing nick (I hope) in the spring and I feel that I've got the ability to do it without too much trouble despite what my profile might say!!
If you ever need a partner who's less experienced I'll be in Chamonix from the 16th March.
I'm probably just falling into the trap of wanting to do too much too young! but i've got ambition.
The thing I find is that climbing with your contemporaries is not a good thing and it's quite hard to find people to climb with who are much more experienced than me which is what I really need.
Last summer was a pain because of the weather and when it started getting good in August I'd already left Chamonix. I really want to try and do the swiss route on the courtes as it's not unbelievably long and the descent should be in good skiing nick (I hope) in the spring and I feel that I've got the ability to do it without too much trouble despite what my profile might say!!
If you ever need a partner who's less experienced I'll be in Chamonix from the 16th March.
In reply to sutty: If this is not a wind-up, which I take it not to be, it is deeply worrying that someone who is seriously contemplating the N face of the Matterhorn doesn't even know what the Schmidt route is. To think about this face without a very solid background of D+/TD - routes behind you is pretty foolish. Its not quite a situation of "if you need to ask, you're not ready", but certainly if your questions are at this level of naivety, you're not ready. Apart from anything else, this sort of very basic information can be easily found out from guide books, it is the fine, local knowledge that you can only get from other people's experience.
In reply to billy.granty: The Matterhorn, especially by the N face (any route), is a big serious mountain, and there is no easy way off the N face till quite high up. I can assure you that even the Zmutt is serious and remote, though not that technical.
Why don't you look at some of the more ameanable faces in the area, such as the North face of the Obergablehorn or the Drieselwand on the Lenspitz? Or for a more mixed experience, how about the traverse of the Zinalrothorn (up East ridge, down North Ridge)?
Why don't you look at some of the more ameanable faces in the area, such as the North face of the Obergablehorn or the Drieselwand on the Lenspitz? Or for a more mixed experience, how about the traverse of the Zinalrothorn (up East ridge, down North Ridge)?
In reply to billy.granty:
Numpties on the Hornli,now numpties on the north face.
>
>
>
> avoid too much of the rock fall coming from the numpties on the hornli as I can imagine it's similar to the gouter approach in terms of fast flying hard objects coming down.
>
> avoid too much of the rock fall coming from the numpties on the hornli as I can imagine it's similar to the gouter approach in terms of fast flying hard objects coming down.
Numpties on the Hornli,now numpties on the north face.
In reply to Simon4: have you seen his others questions ? sounds very keen but often ignorant of what I'd have thought easy to find information of the sort in any guidebook or text book on alpine climbing
In reply to Doug: A bit worrying.
Don't want to be too hard on the chap, but he needs to be realistic about getting an Alpine apprenticeship before considering faces like the N face of the Matterhorn. It is after all one of the 6 great Alpine North faces.
Don't want to be too hard on the chap, but he needs to be realistic about getting an Alpine apprenticeship before considering faces like the N face of the Matterhorn. It is after all one of the 6 great Alpine North faces.
In reply to Doug: but i don't have any books or guides with me which is why I'm asking questions.
I feel a little bashed down by you "alpine masters" and just did want a bit of info on the north face.
I didn't mean I was definitely going to try and do it and was merely mentioning the time of year that I would go for an ascent if I did.
I feel a little bashed down by you "alpine masters" and just did want a bit of info on the north face.
I didn't mean I was definitely going to try and do it and was merely mentioning the time of year that I would go for an ascent if I did.
In reply to billy.grant: If and when you are ready for it, June is probably the best month, when it can be climbed entirely in crampons, yet the days are longish, so that objective danger is minimised. The descent can be a problem if it is seriously snowed/iced up however.
I really suggest that you have climbed routes like those I suggested previously, the Frontier Ridge on Mont Blanc, something on the Aiguille Verte, perhaps the North Face of the Aiguille d'Argentierre and others before you consider it seriously.
I really suggest that you have climbed routes like those I suggested previously, the Frontier Ridge on Mont Blanc, something on the Aiguille Verte, perhaps the North Face of the Aiguille d'Argentierre and others before you consider it seriously.
In reply to Simon4: all routes i wanted to do this summer but just couldn't or didn't but cheers for the advice.
In reply to billy.grant: Another route that might be worth considering is the North West face of the Aiguille du Midi (the Mallory route). Right next to the Frendo, big, long and remote feeling, being on a big face - yet has a cablecar at its start and end.
Also, have you thought of the East Summit of the Droite? These are all quality routes, not trade routes, that will give you much more feel of what big mountains are about.
Also, have you thought of the East Summit of the Droite? These are all quality routes, not trade routes, that will give you much more feel of what big mountains are about.
In reply to billy.grant:
After the first icefield the route traverses quite a bit to the right. There is no obvious line on the route, you'll just need to follow the line of least resistance, which might be hard to follow.
Good conditions and good aclimatization are mandatory if you want to climb the face fast. In bad conditions you'll have to be prepared for anything upto M5 on bad pro. Most of the pro are pitons (ie. you'll need to hammer in which takes time). Long ropes are essential due to the nature of protection. The less pro you place the faster you are.
I'd strongly recommend climbing the Hörnli ridge for warmup before attempting the north face.
After the first icefield the route traverses quite a bit to the right. There is no obvious line on the route, you'll just need to follow the line of least resistance, which might be hard to follow.
Good conditions and good aclimatization are mandatory if you want to climb the face fast. In bad conditions you'll have to be prepared for anything upto M5 on bad pro. Most of the pro are pitons (ie. you'll need to hammer in which takes time). Long ropes are essential due to the nature of protection. The less pro you place the faster you are.
I'd strongly recommend climbing the Hörnli ridge for warmup before attempting the north face.
In reply to Simon4: appreciate the advice but slogging up snow slopes on the mallory is not my idea of fun! without wanting to seem arrogant i would rather do a route with some steeper ice interest. especially on the midi.
but yet again; I appreciate the advice.
Cheers,
Billy.
but yet again; I appreciate the advice.
Cheers,
Billy.
In reply to billy.grant:
Schmid rout is TD+. Look out for avalanche danger on the lower section. The first 2/3 are straight forward ice/easy mixed but the there is some bad rock and no protection. You want to be conformable on UIIA 5 in mitts and axes hanging in your hands. Then rout finding is the hard part. We had to get off 200 m under the summit and that was a stupid move.
Walk up to the hut its a few hours. Then next day bring some food up to the summit hut on Hornli for your decent. This will give you lighter packs going up plus some idea of what its like to decent.
I had some 20 plus routes longer than 500 m and not under D befor having a shoot at this route.
Schmid rout is TD+. Look out for avalanche danger on the lower section. The first 2/3 are straight forward ice/easy mixed but the there is some bad rock and no protection. You want to be conformable on UIIA 5 in mitts and axes hanging in your hands. Then rout finding is the hard part. We had to get off 200 m under the summit and that was a stupid move.
Walk up to the hut its a few hours. Then next day bring some food up to the summit hut on Hornli for your decent. This will give you lighter packs going up plus some idea of what its like to decent.
I had some 20 plus routes longer than 500 m and not under D befor having a shoot at this route.
In reply to billy.grant: Go and do the Mallory in icy conditions and finish straight under the cablecar rather than go left to finish. I will treat you to a hot chocolate after!
In reply to billy.granty: I hope with all the warnings from some seriously experienced people, it is clear how big an undertaking the N face of the Matterhorn is. It was a major breakthrough, comparable with the 1938 route on the Eiger Nordwand when it was first climbed.
In reply to Simon4: I would not discourage him. We all need to dream to go forward.
In reply to francoisecall: true, and these routes were after all only done by mere mortals.
It was just the tone of naive and unrealistic optimism that was worrying me. He needs far more knowledge and experience before tackling a route like this.
Nothing to say that he may not eventually be perfectly capable of it.
It was just the tone of naive and unrealistic optimism that was worrying me. He needs far more knowledge and experience before tackling a route like this.
Nothing to say that he may not eventually be perfectly capable of it.
In reply to billy.granty:
oh to be caught in a chamonix bubble!
anyway no harm asking the question....i had a look at the hornli and it looked like it was about to fall down....so not sure how it would be on the faces.
> (In reply to Andy Hobson) caught in a bit of a Chamonix bubble.
oh to be caught in a chamonix bubble!
anyway no harm asking the question....i had a look at the hornli and it looked like it was about to fall down....so not sure how it would be on the faces.
In reply to Simon4: unrealistic optimism is what makes for a good climber. Youve got to have these sort of dreams otherwise youll never fail and so never learn.
In reply to Morgan Woods:
The Hornli is several million times more solid than the faces. Especially the West face (horror!).
It is normal to do the N face route in late Spring/early Summer, to get the face well iced up. Then ice binds the route, also ice protection can be used on occasion.
Of course this does have the downside that descending the iced-up Hornli afterwards can be very demanding.
> anyway no harm asking the question....i had a look at the hornli and it looked like it was about to fall down....so not sure how it would be on the faces.
The Hornli is several million times more solid than the faces. Especially the West face (horror!).
It is normal to do the N face route in late Spring/early Summer, to get the face well iced up. Then ice binds the route, also ice protection can be used on occasion.
Of course this does have the downside that descending the iced-up Hornli afterwards can be very demanding.
In reply to francoisecall: will do! i think you know iain afshar so ill try and get him to do it with me and I await the coffee!
In reply to Andy Hobson: I agree with the comments on here btw about more experience etc. but optimism genrally makes people have the desire to get better and more experienced.
Francoise,
What a fantastic phrase of words.
Billy: Can highly recomend the Lenzspitze N face for getting some feeling of exposure on a big wide open face.
Then you'd need some good solid mixed experience, somehting like the Migot Spur for starters?
Go for it, but only go when you're ready. Shame we're having a baby in January, else I'd climb with you in March. Can never get enough motivated partners.
What a fantastic phrase of words.
Billy: Can highly recomend the Lenzspitze N face for getting some feeling of exposure on a big wide open face.
Then you'd need some good solid mixed experience, somehting like the Migot Spur for starters?
Go for it, but only go when you're ready. Shame we're having a baby in January, else I'd climb with you in March. Can never get enough motivated partners.
In reply to billy.grant:
Dear Billy. I know the feeling and the situation you are in. I will tell you a bit about my climbing background and you can benchmark it if you want or toss the advice.
First time I arrived in Chamonix was the December 16th 1988. I was 17 turning 18 on x-mas day. I was going to be climbing with friends but they where all arriving later so full of ambition I went up to the Midi Hiked over the glacier to the bottom of the North Face of Tour Ronde. This was my first time ever on a glacier. (This was my second winter season. The First I spent doing ice fall climbing in Scandinavia). I can assure you it was a stupid move to be alone on a glacier. Any way next morning I got up early and headed over to the bergscrund and top out a few hours later. On the decent I almost fell down in a crevasse (to day I understan how close I was to be lost for ever on that day) but I was lucky and a guide who was on the route helped me down. He was not the impressed with my solo efforts and basically told me if I wanted to do more than one winter I should get a partner and learn the basics.
I stayed put in the wally until my friends arrived who where older and more experienced. We managed to tick off Les Courtes North Face, Triolet, Gabarou and a few other routes in a few week. I gained lots of experience and I was back for Easter doing several long and quite serious routes.
By the time the next winter had arrived I had a expedition to Pakistan in the bag and I was aiming at the Dru Coloire as a warm up we did the Mallory on Midi. Its not slogging up snow slopes. Depending on conditions it can be interesting climbing. But more than that it will give you mileage you need to be out lots and lots on easy stuff and hard stuff to build experience and speed.
The quote from you below to me is just ignorant. Go out learn and then have a go at the Matterhorn but its one step at the time and you will have fun doing it nit juts trying to stay alive.
"appreciate the advice but slogging up snow slopes on the mallory is not my idea of fun! without wanting to seem arrogant i would rather do a route with some steeper ice interest. especially on the midi."
Dear Billy. I know the feeling and the situation you are in. I will tell you a bit about my climbing background and you can benchmark it if you want or toss the advice.
First time I arrived in Chamonix was the December 16th 1988. I was 17 turning 18 on x-mas day. I was going to be climbing with friends but they where all arriving later so full of ambition I went up to the Midi Hiked over the glacier to the bottom of the North Face of Tour Ronde. This was my first time ever on a glacier. (This was my second winter season. The First I spent doing ice fall climbing in Scandinavia). I can assure you it was a stupid move to be alone on a glacier. Any way next morning I got up early and headed over to the bergscrund and top out a few hours later. On the decent I almost fell down in a crevasse (to day I understan how close I was to be lost for ever on that day) but I was lucky and a guide who was on the route helped me down. He was not the impressed with my solo efforts and basically told me if I wanted to do more than one winter I should get a partner and learn the basics.
I stayed put in the wally until my friends arrived who where older and more experienced. We managed to tick off Les Courtes North Face, Triolet, Gabarou and a few other routes in a few week. I gained lots of experience and I was back for Easter doing several long and quite serious routes.
By the time the next winter had arrived I had a expedition to Pakistan in the bag and I was aiming at the Dru Coloire as a warm up we did the Mallory on Midi. Its not slogging up snow slopes. Depending on conditions it can be interesting climbing. But more than that it will give you mileage you need to be out lots and lots on easy stuff and hard stuff to build experience and speed.
The quote from you below to me is just ignorant. Go out learn and then have a go at the Matterhorn but its one step at the time and you will have fun doing it nit juts trying to stay alive.
"appreciate the advice but slogging up snow slopes on the mallory is not my idea of fun! without wanting to seem arrogant i would rather do a route with some steeper ice interest. especially on the midi."
In reply to Latok: cheers for everyones' advice. is there anyone willing to team up for a few routes this spring.
despite what you all might think I do have some experience and am really keen to get loads done this march to april.
Ill be in and around chamonix from 16th March.
despite what you all might think I do have some experience and am really keen to get loads done this march to april.
Ill be in and around chamonix from 16th March.
In reply to billy.grant: Actually the Frendo iced up is not a joke. Ask around about it first. First there is not a lot of daylight in a winter day so if you want to do it in a day from cable car to cable car, you must know the way. Then on the technical side I am not too sure how to rate it but it is neither standard ice climbing nor mixed (of which there is some) but more like thinly iced slabs and cracks. I can't boast too mcuh because I did it as a second to an ace climber.
In reply to francoisecall:
i'll just have to hope that next april becomes as warm as it did this year. I wasn't considering that as a spring goal. snowed up it sounds hellish! ive got a mate who tried it solo and had to retreat off in a blizzard. he looked a little bad when he finally got down.
i was thinking of the couloir en s on the midi as well if it's in good (thick) condition.
im looking to ski tour A LOT as well so if you ever need an apprentice i'd be game.
i'll just have to hope that next april becomes as warm as it did this year. I wasn't considering that as a spring goal. snowed up it sounds hellish! ive got a mate who tried it solo and had to retreat off in a blizzard. he looked a little bad when he finally got down.
i was thinking of the couloir en s on the midi as well if it's in good (thick) condition.
im looking to ski tour A LOT as well so if you ever need an apprentice i'd be game.
In reply to billy.granty:
I know somebody who has climbed with you who said you were enthusiastic and able. Hope you get the Schmidt Route ticked when you're ready; it is the stuff of dreams.
I do think you and certain other posters put pressure on yourselves (and invite flamings) by stating that you will do these dream routes that you want info and inspiration on within a definate time schedule, which is not always realistic.
Mind you, if I'd set myself a few stiffer targets over the years I might be climbing harder and have got more dream routes ticked, so I can't really criticise your approach.
I know somebody who has climbed with you who said you were enthusiastic and able. Hope you get the Schmidt Route ticked when you're ready; it is the stuff of dreams.
I do think you and certain other posters put pressure on yourselves (and invite flamings) by stating that you will do these dream routes that you want info and inspiration on within a definate time schedule, which is not always realistic.
Mind you, if I'd set myself a few stiffer targets over the years I might be climbing harder and have got more dream routes ticked, so I can't really criticise your approach.
In reply to Jamie B.: i'm presuming kenny? that was a good birthday for me this year.
I know i put pressure on myself to do things but I didn't have a great season this year due to the weather / not having partners at the right time so didn't get the big routes that I wanted to do done.
maybe this year. I won't throw myself at big EDs yet though. never fear.
I know i put pressure on myself to do things but I didn't have a great season this year due to the weather / not having partners at the right time so didn't get the big routes that I wanted to do done.
maybe this year. I won't throw myself at big EDs yet though. never fear.
In reply to billy.grant: You could always practice on the N Face of Mam Tor, or even Pen y Fan, in winter.
In reply to Al Evans: don't you think bivouack spots might be a little hard to find? I've heard that ledges are a little hard to come by.
In reply to billy.grant:
Just remember, good acclimatisation is very important for the NF of Matterhorn. It tops out in 4478 meters.
We started climbing the route about 48 hours after leaving the sea level and we ended up being exhausted all the time. It was never too hard but it took us four days instead of the planned two days. The extra time cost some bad frostbite for my partner.
The three bivies we had there were all horrible. We were hanging on 45 degree slopes with slings under our feet to make it semi standing. And the spindrift was everywhere...
Just remember, good acclimatisation is very important for the NF of Matterhorn. It tops out in 4478 meters.
We started climbing the route about 48 hours after leaving the sea level and we ended up being exhausted all the time. It was never too hard but it took us four days instead of the planned two days. The extra time cost some bad frostbite for my partner.
The three bivies we had there were all horrible. We were hanging on 45 degree slopes with slings under our feet to make it semi standing. And the spindrift was everywhere...
In reply to adnix: don't worry i would never try a route like that unless i had spent a lot of time above 4000m already.
that sounds like a seriously grim time. what month did you do it in?
that sounds like a seriously grim time. what month did you do it in?
In reply to billy.grant:
February 4th till 8th. Very cold and not too much daylight.
A good story with good pics:
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/275697/matterhorn-in-winter-tastes-bi...
February 4th till 8th. Very cold and not too much daylight.
A good story with good pics:
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/275697/matterhorn-in-winter-tastes-bi...
In reply to Andy Hobson:
The route is not something where you could end up being in the wrong place without noticing it. The snow and cold might make even the approach very "interesting", not to speak about the face.
I would suggest having a look at the Hörnli hut in winter, at least. You can always turn back if you're really not prepared for the big thing. The experience helps next time. And you can always try the Hörnli ridge in winter conditions if you're not really into the North Face. The Hörnli shouldn't take too long if you're aiming 10-15 hours for the North Face...
We'll probably be at the Hörnli hut from Feb 25th till Feb 28th this winter with my partner. We're planning on freshening up some Matterhorn memories during our acclimatizing days. Depending on snow conditions and everything, of course.
> Billy - this is a route that needs to be treated with respect. Build up some solid experience first.
The route is not something where you could end up being in the wrong place without noticing it. The snow and cold might make even the approach very "interesting", not to speak about the face.
I would suggest having a look at the Hörnli hut in winter, at least. You can always turn back if you're really not prepared for the big thing. The experience helps next time. And you can always try the Hörnli ridge in winter conditions if you're not really into the North Face. The Hörnli shouldn't take too long if you're aiming 10-15 hours for the North Face...
We'll probably be at the Hörnli hut from Feb 25th till Feb 28th this winter with my partner. We're planning on freshening up some Matterhorn memories during our acclimatizing days. Depending on snow conditions and everything, of course.
In reply to billy.grant: Are you in Chamonix now? How green an apprentice are you in ski touring?
In reply to francoisecall: not yet but I will be there for a month over march and april.
I've never done any touring before so the choice as whether to be my master or not is yours. (please teach me!)
I've never done any touring before so the choice as whether to be my master or not is yours. (please teach me!)
In reply to francoisecall: i'm a good skier though so i won't be dying when it gets deep or icy.
In reply to billy.grant: If we were not on a climbing site it would sound like a very dubious proposition! Contact me in March April then!
In reply to francoisecall: will do.
In reply to Al Evans:
Christ, Al! Do you want him to die?
> (In reply to billy.grant) You could always practice on the N Face of Mam Tor, or even Pen y Fan, in winter.
Christ, Al! Do you want him to die?
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...