UKC

Hi, I'm toying with the idea of buying one these devices and would like some feedback from various users of the pros & cons.

I've previously used a friend's inreach mini whilst climbing in Nepal and that worked fine but I wondered about other devices e.g. Spot Gen 4 etc

My criteria is as follows:

Majority of time spent walking & climbing in the UK year round, occasionally on my own in winter;

I do a little freelance work as a ML and I intend to extend this into winter;

I don't intend to send any/many messages whilst in UK;

I visit the alps for a 3-4 week block once a year climbing/walking;

I may visit Nepal on the odd trip.

Any feedback would be appreciated TIA

P.S. I'm tight and fan of all things alpine light

I'd go for the inreach Messenger, even if you dont plan to use it to message.  Cheaper, smaller and better antenna & battery than the inreach mini.  A basic monthly plan (switchable on and off) isn't too expensive.

I wouldn't bother with the marine type pbls (if that's what youre referring to?)... inreach or proper alternative is the way to go.  e.g. Zoleo which uses iridium.  Inreach and iridium are global, many others are not.

Not really worth saving a few quid or grams for life saving equipment like that.  I take GPSMAP 66i (for primary tracking/SOS and GPS duties) with a Messenger as backup (kept separately in my pack or pulk).

Of the true PLB's (no messages, no subscription, 121.5MHz homing beacon built-in) this would be the one you want: https://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/

Most of them are designed to float in case you drop it, which means they have to be less dense than water and therefore bigger than they need to be.  This one is smaller, won't float, and comes with a little neoprene floatation pouch that you can take off if you don't need it.

You might well be better off with a satellite messenger thingy like a Garmin Inreach instead though, dunno.

One other issue with marine PBLs that I've heard (I work with a marine department so know a few folk) is that you can't guarantee that emergency services will react to a marine PBL being activated on land... can be confused with a mistake, being a marine device and all (especially if somewhere hard to reach).  You won't have that issue with inreach!

with the marine type PLBs you register it with the UK Marine and Coastguard agency, on this you register all the types of activities you might be involved with, so not just sailing/canoeing but also walking/climbing/mountaineering etc.  I would hope that this would avoid any of the confusion you mention? but don't know for sure. 

Also I don't know how this would work if you activate it abroad, but eventually it would still come back to the UK registration and the contact numbers you have registered to the device and I can't imagine they would ignore a distress signal without trying to contact the registered contact details...but maybe I have too much faith in the system

My understanding:

All true PLB’s (which nowadays have both Satellite distress relay using GPS co-ordinates and the radio beacon signal) are registered to a country, which is where the activation  is routed to; for the UK this is the Coastguard. If the location is overseas they have to notify and transfer the information to the relevant country’s equivalent rescue coordination centre

SEND’s such as spot and Inreach, activations are related to their providers centre, usually in America which then have to notify and transfer the information to the relevant country’s rescue coordination centre.

How much of this transfer process is automated I can’t tell you. 

Obviously from time to time f**ck ups can occur irrespective of the system, and poor decisions can be made. The UK coastguard have overlooked / dismissed activations in the offshore marine environments so it’s not just a land versus offshore bias.

This one reason why protocol is to trigger the PLB / SEND and then try and get a voice call (phone/vhf/ last resort and old fashioned runner) for assistance out as well - if possible. The other is the emergency services don’t know what they are dealing with from an activation alone.  Is it a single person immobile but otherwise OK or is the incident a dozen people avalanched - they haven’t a clue from a simple trigger. Some SENDs allow simple messages to be also sent which can help.

The Garmin and SPOT devices aren't true PLBs - they will work as one, but don't quite function the same, covered above by other posters. They also have features which for you are superfluous - its honestly better to think go them as sat phones minus the phone. In fact the technical term for these devices is "satellite communicator". If you have new iPhone, it probably already has this function, so no need to double up.

For a true PLB, the classic is the Ocean Signal rescueME PLB1 - this is the one I have always used (note, I don't have my own, but various agencies I have worked with have supplied them), and I assume its for a reason. So one of those.  For my personal use I have a Garmin 66i, but I use it as a GNSS and to send messages. 

When I registered my PLB online I got an automated email response telling me that there would be a delay before the certificate was issued but that I was covered anyway. This didn’t fill me with confidence so after several weeks I phoned them and the certificate then arrived within a couple of days. I found it a bit disconcerting that when the phone was answered they just said “hello” rather than the more commonplace “good afternoon Maritime and Coastguard Beacon Registry team, Simon speaking, thank you for reaching out, how may I help you today…”  

I use this one -

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/safety-beacons/plb-ais/mcmurdo-fastfind-re...

In theory it lets you know that your alert and location has been recieved but there are no guarantees with this sort of kit. I bought mine primarily for solo seakayaking in the UK. When out on the hills it lives in the bottom of my rucksack. I'd be very disappointed with myself if I got into a situation where I needed it but equally I wouldn't hesitate to use it if necessary. I've no idea how it might work, or not, outside the UK.

AFAIK All the emergency signals go to Falmouth where a human operator contacts the coastguard for the appropriate area. Unambiguous if at sea or off a coast. If the location were Ben Nevis, Peutery Ridge on Mont Blanc or Kensington High Street I would expect the operator to exercise common sense and direct the call appropriately. A big limitation of a PLB is lack of additional information. If at sea the registered craft (eg sea kayak) will help a lot. Inland without craft less so and a fully charged phone with signal will be a lot more helpful. 

I don’t know if an activated PLB may adversely affect an avalanche transceiver, anyone know?

Massively different frequencies;
Avalanche transmitters; 457 kHz

PLB; 406 MHz

so would assume, but not an expert, that there would be no interference.

Is that right?  I thought the global control centre (which is in Houston, Texas) went directly to whichever national control centre is appropriate for the location the PLB is reporting, without going via the national control room of the country it's registered in if that's different.

As you say, a PLB will get a response even if it isn't registered, which is just as well because registration in the UK is ridiculously slow. 

Falmouth process the registrations, but it's actually the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Fareham (Southampton) that deals with the callouts for the UK.  And yes, they then contact the appropriate regional Coastguard controol room, or Police control room as appropriate for the PLB's reported location.  (And the Coastguard in turn coordinate with RNLI in much the same way that Police coordinate with Mountain Rescue.)

I'm now leaning towards a 2-way satellite comms device.

I feel having the ability to press the big red button and also having the extra feature of sending additional info through text could be really useful to ensure a correct response.

Plus this would be useful for weather updates if on expeditions.

I can have a simple monthly plan covering basic cover then upgrade as n when.

This should cover all my needs, thanks for the feedback

I don't think it's just down to the frequencies: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_EU/stories/qc-lab-beacon-interfere...

I’ve used a SPOT Gen 3 for a couple of years, particularly when doing multi-day unsupported bike events in the arctic winter. They work well and you can let people see your progress on a web page and send ‘check-in’ messages to say you’re OK. However, they don’t work too well under heavy tree cover. SPOT are a rubbish company to deal with, price-gouging on renewal land a battle every year to threaten cancellation to get a decent price.

The latest Garmin In-reach devices have better functionality eg 2-way text messaging but do cost more.

There’s a couple of newer devices - Motorola Defy and Zoleo.

I do a bit of sea kayaking as well as mountain sports and considering a satellite device rather than a PLB

I’ve spoken to a couple of parks Mountain safety professionals in Canada and they greatly prefer the 2 way message enabled devices as in most cases they can get information that makes their lives a lot easier: is it a genuine emergency, how many people are involved, how bad are the injuries, etc. I have an inreach messenger and it’s been great just for communicating when you don’t have mobile coverage. 

SPOT's global coverage used to be pretty "spotty", limited by the sat network it uses, as lower inclination orbits mean zero coverage above a certain latitude. Plus they used to be only "bent‑pipe" design, which means the sat had to have sight of both you and a ground station for messages to get through. Might have changed, but I don't think so.

Their very own coverage map shows only "fringe" in Nepal, for example, which basically translates to "zero" in any valleys with a big mountain to the east (their nearest ground station is likely in East Asia, and their sats don't work unless in sight of a ground station).

In fact, their own coverage map is so spotty that it shows Georgia as part of Russia. Not sure I'd trust a company that can't even get a map right...

Just something to ponder.