UKC

Hi all,

I'm hoping for advice in shortlisting for a new pack (or second hand, once I know what I want). 

At the moment, I have a Deuter Speed Lite 25L, which fits me really nicely and I love for unprotected scrambling, single day hikings and multi-day summer trips when staying in a hostel - mostly the lakes, but have also used on things like Curved Ridge this summer. (I also have a two decades old 65L Karrimor pack I got for DofE, which is fine I guess!)

I'm planning a winter skills course this year, and looking at some overnight camping and more technical stuff into 2025. So I'm looking for suggestions for packs in the 35-45 litre range that will do as all-rounders (with the final choice ideally coming down to fit).

What I'm looking for:

• Around 40L (based on what’s commonly recommended in winter skills kit lists)
• Lidded closure (ideally removable, but not super worried about that).
• Top and side compression straps to hold a rope etc
• Attachment for ice axe(s) (likely to be just a walking axe for now, but I do like scrambling, so I may want something more technical in the longer term) and walking poles
• Capacity to take a water bladder/hydration system for summer hiking 
• Ideally at least one stretchy side pocket for a 1L Nalgene. I know I don't want stuff outside when climbing/scrambling but this is useful for summer use (but not essential if there's a bladder system)
• I quite like one or two small extra pockets - they can be in the lid though
• Capacity to attach a helmet would be a nice plus
• I don't feel strongly either way about side/bottom zips
• If the waist belt is removable that's nice, but far from essential 
• Ideally I'd prefer a more budget option (I’m not going to be pushing the limits of climbing any time soon) - though I am cautious about build quality - is budget a false economy. 

I'm considering

• Decathalon Simond Alpinism 40 Evo  looks like it ticks most boxes, but the full panel opening on front and back seems like a lot of weakness built in, and the Ice axe attachment might impale you? £90
• Alpkit Orion 45 - looks decent value back support doesnt look the best £100
• Rab ascender 35:40 (also in 45:50) (a re-skin of the Lowe Alpine Halycon 35:40?). No side pocket, but does have a hydration system. The LA did ok in the UKC group test a few years back, except they found the attachment system not the best for straight ice axes. £140 (seem to be some stock issues at the moment)
• Mamut Trion 38 no side pocket - £155
• Deuter Guide 34+8 or 42+8 (I’ve had good experiences with the Deuter, which suggests this might fit me well?) no side pockets €200
• Osprey Mutant 38 - £175 no side pockets
• Mountain Equipment Fang 42+, older versions had a side pocket, but this doesn't seem to be the case any more? Seems well regarded, but at £200 its a lot.
• Arcteryx Alpha AR 35 - no side pocket, a touch small,. £140 in the outlet down from £200 (seems only to be available via the outlet)
• Gregory Alpinisto LT 38 - no side pockets,. £170

I’ve more or less ruled out

• Macpac pursuit 40 (no lid)
• Salewa Ortles Guide 35L £210 (too expensive)
• Blue Ice Firecrest 38 warthog 40 and Kume 40 - all lack lids
• Montane Fast Alpine 40 - doesnt seem to be available in the UK
• Patagonia  Descensionist Snow Pack 37L - too expensive, more of a skiing/snowboarding job
• Rab Latok 38 looks to be a bit more minimalist than I want (no lid)
• Millet Peuterey integrale 35+10 or Prolighter 38+10L dont seem to be UK available, quite expensive
• Highlander Ben Nevis 52 - bigger than I want - shame there’s no 40L option
• Black diamond speed 40 - does not appear to be hydration compatible £160
• ME Tulipak 37 - too expensive (unless I win the UKC competition!)

Any tips, recommendations for shortlisting, or other offers would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks

Jack

P.S., if anyone is looking for a buddy for winter skills course, hit me up.

Unless you've ruled it out for other reasons...

https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rucksacks-Bags/Rucksacks/Montane-Fas...

At £90 - solid bag at a great price

*EDIT* Id also like it to be quote readily available in the UK, either to shop in person, or from a seller with a free returns policy. I'm the sort of person who would try to make something work, rather than paying for a return if its not quite righy for me.

Bags designed for climbing are unlikely to have side pockets because you want them to be no wider than your shoulders.

Personally I think 40l is a bit small for winter, certainly if you're thinking about overnights. It's better to have a bag that you can fit everything into comfortably rather than it being stuffed full, particularly when you're wearing big gloves and it's blowing a hoolie.

Aguille Alpine Equipment bags are excellent, made in the UK, and can be customised if you drop them an email. I use a Zephyr (which feels like a generous 45L) a lot, for anything from winter climbing where it swallows all my kit super easily even when the weather is crap at the top, to backpacking trips where I’m carrying a weeks worth of food, to hauling tent and climbing kit up a mountain to base myself there for a few days. It’s comfy, light, and I don’t see if breaking any time soon. It’s also amazingly low fafd, buckles are big and easy to operate with gloves on and it doesn’t have any annoying buckles.

Some people don’t like the classic style ice axe fabric loops, but I think they actually work much better than the toggle thing that most newer style bags have. The toggle things stretch out over time and stop holding the ice axe so well, and not all bags allow you to tighten it easily. Also, depending on the ice axe, the toggle might be able to slip through the head again - this happened to me with a different bag in the alps this summer, and I kept having to use an alpine draw to secure it to the grab handle just in case it popped out which was such a pain.

It doesn’t have side pockets, I find this is not needed for winter stuff anyway, and in summer, I use the gossamer gear shoulder pouch thing to keep my water bottle accessible if I want. 
 

In the past I’ve used a mutant a lot and it just feels faffy compared to the Aguille. The zephyr might be a bit big for you, but one of their smaller bags might be ideal. 

Yeah, I'd only be after the sort of stretchy mesh that can take a nalgene, but doesn't add bulk when empty.

The Simond one looks good, perhaps one or two too many features, but they all have a purpose and it can be stripped back. I have a 22l and 45l pack of theirs and they are well thought through and robust. 

Custom bags seem like they wouldn't be the best for trialling fit. Any experience on that front?

Mammut Trion 50?

Not sure how I missed the Deuter Gravity Expedition 45+ the larger end of what I want, but seems slightly more affordable than the Guide models, and has a side pocket!

The 50 is probably larger than I wan,t but the 38 is on my list - any rationale for the recommendation?

I've not been particularly enthused by the current generation of packs. All just seem to be getting crazy expensive and although I'm as minimalist as anyone when it comes to packing for Scottish Winter, I can't really get behind this recent trend towards not having a decently sized lid pocket.

As regards pack size for Scottish Winter stuff, loads of experienced climbers including instructors & mountain guides regularly use really quite small packs. They can do that based on experience and a refined system. Equally, some of my other climbing partners prefer a pack they can easily throw everything into. For relative novices in winter it probably makes sense to play it safe and go for a slightly larger pack, but that's by no means essential.

It's worth keeping an eye out for one of the previous generation of Blue Ice Warthog packs going cheap second hand. Compared to the more recent designs, both models had a generously sized lid pocket and other than not having an external water bottle pouch, tick most of your boxes.

The older Warthog 28 is a good climbing pack although the older Warthog 40 is probably the sort of thing you are after.

Another one to look out for second hand is a previous generation Patagonia Ascensionist. Again, there was both 30l and 40l versions. 

As a final point, with any of the packs with side compression straps adding an external water bottle pouch for summer use should be fairly straightforward.

i’ve got the Alpkit one for winter and really like it. I had the same requirement for the stretchy side pockets and that helped narrow things down.
 

I kind of wish i’d gone for a pack with front opening zip though as its a faff routling all the way to the bottom

check out exped's rucksacks, ideally on the main (non-UK) website as they have a wider selection. I have a Verglas and a Mountain Pro, both excellent. Really long lasting. 

I reviewed one for UKC maybe 5 yrs ago. Never really got on with it. Although it ticked all the right boxes it was somehow lumpy and never fitted well. 

I get through rucksacks quite quickly with the amount of climbing and work I do. Here are some thoughts for you:

All the Rab bags I've had have been awful. Even at a good discounted price they've been disappointing. The Latok series are the worst. 

The FL series are annoying when they inevitably fill up with water and get heavy to carry. I find that their sausage shape makes packing awkward, especially in the winter when you just want to stuff gear in and get moving. They are comfortable to climb with as they're narrow.

The Tupilak 37 is expensive but mine has done in excess of 300 days over the last 4 years and still looks pretty good. I'm really impressed and it certainly worth the money. 

The BD speed packs are burly and good value but quite heavy by modern standards. I wouldn't worry about hydration compatibility as the tubes freeze in the winter and you'll probably want a hot drink in a thermos anyway. I used a Speed 40 on my WML assessment and had plenty of spare capacity. 40l is about right for a winter climbing day/walking with an overnight. 

I have a Blue Ice Stache as my rescue team bag. It's really light for its capacity. My main complaint is that the lid clip is awful in the snow. 

The old Patagonia Ascensionist bags were great but they seem to have paused selling them.

Everything I've used from Osprey is faffy and busy. No one needs that many straps, clips and pockets on a bag. 

 

I think this has become received wisdom but I disagree. I reviewed the Mutant a few years back and the only problem was the overly dark colours https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/rucksacks/medium/osprey_mutant_38_pack-1134... I've got two Osprey cycling packs, they do have lots of pockets and zips etc but as my daily commuting bags I use all the features. 

Of packs I've reviewed in recent years, the ones I go back to for climbing are:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/rucksacks/medium/built_to_send_x2_pack-1545... but I still find it a bit 'agricultural' and unrefined.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/rucksacks/medium/exped_black_ice_30_pack-14... but I also find 30 is a bit small for pitched winter climbing, you can get bigger versions though.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/rucksacks/medium/mountain_packs_around_40_l... this one was a surprise success as I had never tried a Salewa pack before but does everything the OP is asking for I think. 

The full review that includes the Salewa is worth a look for the OP. 

Karrimor SF bags.  The Sabre 30 is essentially a modernised version of the Hot Rock 30.

https://karrimorsf.com/collections/sabre

Tough and simple.

I have the Alpkit Orion that is cheap, light but not the best build. The main reason I bought it is because it fits my back better than any other bag I tried in 3 stores. Served me very well in the alps and an early winter climbing season so far. I had to get a free repair on one of the cord toggles

The lid is sown in, the pull cord toggles are crap, the ice axe toggle holders are too lose but non of these things for me are deal breakers, its only a bag.

I have an original design Ascensionist 25 and a Tupilak 37, I prefer the Tupilak though still use both depending on what the use case is.

• Neither carry a rope that well, Tupilak ok with a butterfly coil using the compression straps, Ascensionist is awful. 
• Neither "lid pocket" is great. The Ascensionist seemed great, but makes the "lid" flop everywhere and if you actually use it, the lid does not stand up nicely like in the pictures/videos. Tupilak is better, doesn't affect the lid, but flaps around and can end up an annoying location
• Ascensionist back panel is rubbish, too soft, had modified with thin stiff re-enforcement
• Tupilak carries amazingly, really comfy, Ascensionist (after mod) carries well.
• Tupilak bombproof for such a light pack and very water resistant.