UKC

I'm looking to replace my old Black diamond ATC.

Any recommendations for plain old trad climbing (single and double rope) and the odd abseil?

 Dont think Im likely to change the way I belay (off the harness yoke), so I'm thinking to change like-for-like...just wondering if tthings like the XP or Guide versions have any advantages that might apply to me...

Thanks!

There are some tube belay devices now that have auto-locking features; I haven't tried them yet but lots of people seem impressed by them (mega jul, alpine up, click up)

If you've no interest in belaying directly from an anchor (which I'm a big fan of, for a lot of reasons) then there's not much incentive to get a 'guide' version. With that said, a guide plate can be used to ascend a rope, or as a progress capture pulley in a 3:1 system, but these potential uses probably doesn't justify getting one.

Never been a fan of the original ATC as I find it too slick, but if it's what you're happy with why change? 

Personally I prefer the ATCxp (or similar) as they have the same operation but are that bit more grabby, or can be reversed to give the same as what you're used to. Guide mode is nice, but only if you do the kind of climbing where it's relevant.

Ropes are generally thinner nowadays compared to when the ATC came out hence it is a lot slicker for belaying and abbing. Check the current options against your preferred rope diameter

I'd suggest looking at something like the DMM Mantis, Petzl Verso or a BD ATC XP most likely if you don't need guide mode. In terms of features they are much of a muchness, although you may find that one is more granny than the others.

There is loads of choice these days and much of it is relatively similar, but also quite good at its intended job.

For the few pennies extra which it costs I prefer to have a dedicated belay device for half ropes, and for that my favourite is the ATC Alpine Guide (the green one). I don't like being belayed on 8 mm or 8.5 mm half ropes in a high fall factor situation from a full size ATC or Reverso, especially if clipping the two strands separately.

For the wall and sport climbing (which I realise you didn't ask about ) then a Grigri or an Edelrid Jul. I have switched more or less completely to the Grigri now, but one feature I like about the Jul is that it is made from stainless steel and so doesn't wear thin from the frequent lowering off in the same way as an ATC or a Reverso. (I use it with an Edelrid "Bulletproof" HMS karabiner which has a stainless steel inlay for the surface exposed to the rope, so this doesn't wear either.)

I don't usually climb with natural gear on a single rope, but if I did, then I guess I would use the bigger ATC Guide or (because I have already got it) a Reverso.

People don’t generally use any of those auto locking tube style devices for trad climbing, and they’re definitely no good for abseiling.

Tried a short abseil on my click-up once. Didn’t go well…

I've used my Mega Jul for at least 80% of my trad and winter climbing for the last decade, so I'm not sure if that's true. Doubt I'm the only one anyway.

Is it much different from abing on a grigri? I've always found that works great. I've very recently got an Edelrid Pinch, I haven't tried that for abseiling yet but imagine that's quite like using a grigri also. I have abbed on on my Mega Jul a lot. I used to do it regularly using it in autolock config with a krab for the release handle, but now follow Edelrid's up dated advice and do it classic style with a prussik for back up.

I stopped using my original ATC in 2000 after finding a scary lack of friction abseiling the South Face of the Midi - I guess we might have started using Beal Icelines by then so they were narrower than my previous half ropes. Maybe BD have shrunk them a bit since, because they had a reputation for being slippy back then, maybe not - but at least check what BD website says on compatible rope diameters.

Interestingly I bought a new rope for winter climbing in November, a 7.5 mm one. When I looked at my Mega Jul which I would normally use, it was only rated for halves/twins to 7.8 mm. Fortunately the DMM Pivot I also have is good down to 7.3 so am using that currently with that rope. 

I use the alpine up for both sport and trad - I like that I can switch between auto-locking and dynamic mode without changing device or technique.

You get used to abseiling on them and it gets less bouncy - I might use dynamic mode for a simple abseil where I can see the ropes untangled to the ground, but if I think I'll be stopping on the way down I'll use auto-locking mode rather than extending and adding a prussic. It's quicker and simpler, therefore safer IMO.

Fair enough, always thought that trad and ice climbers generally don’t use them as you’re not able to slip the rope when you catch a caller, meaning more force goes through the gear but of course that doesn’t mean they aren’t by anybody!

Yes, it was different to abseiling on a gri gri, found it very difficult to control speed of descent and, more worryingly, got very hot very quickly! 

The Alpine-Up and Click-Up are rather different beasts. Never used one as I don’t do any double ropes climbing. Looks like a nice piece of kit though, I really like the click-up for Sport…

I replaced my DMM bug with a Metolius BRD

https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/belay-rappel-device.html

It's definitely lots grabbier than an ATC dropping device.

Thanks, 

Going to try an ATC XP as gripping the skinny, new ropes is definitely an issue.

Cheers All.

In what way? Abseiling is no different to lowering a climber.  I borrowed one at the wall last night and had no problems lowering anyone and would happily use it to ab with. I guess the only concern is the need to use one hand on the device to tip it, but that's no different to using one hand on a grigri or any other handled device.

Two differences:

When abseiling the operator will be moving and possibly accelerating which may impede accuracy of control.

When belaying the rope will have a 180 deg bend in the quickdraw or lower off which will add significant friction to the system.

I said upthread, much more difficult to control speed of descent than when lowering & got very hot.

I've tried abbing on a Mammut Smart and it didn't work nicely at all, which surprised me as for lowering I find them the smoother of the brake assist devices.  It was so unpleasantly grabby that I ended up tying it off and putting the Bug on underneath to swap over!

For trad I've just got a DMM Bug.  Keep it simple.  Edit: Though sadly they appear to no longer be on sale, which is a shame as they're a great simple device.

The Edelrid giga jul is the best device ive ever used, would highly recommend