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Camstops on Microcams

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 pec 23 Sep 2024

I'm considering buying a couple of microcams in the smaller sizes and it appears that none of them have camstops.

The old style WC Zeros did have camstops so it's clearly possible for cams that small to have them. So is there a reason why they don't anymore?

 Luke90 23 Sep 2024
In reply to pec:

I'm no cam designer, but presumably adding stops requires a wider head, and a narrow head is probably more beneficial most of the time than having stops. If a microcam placement is reliant on the stops, it's probably not very good anyway.

1
 Rick Graham 23 Sep 2024
In reply to Luke90:

> I'm no cam designer, but presumably adding stops requires a wider head, and a narrow head is probably more beneficial most of the time than having stops. If a microcam placement is reliant on the stops, it's probably not very good anyway.

Your last sentence sums it up .

When cam stops first came a thing, one designer and manufacturer admitted to me that they were a waste of time but if folk wanted to give him £30 ( it was years ago) to use a cam as a nut  (and probably a useless one ), that was fine by him.

Post edited at 22:14
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OP pec 23 Sep 2024
In reply to Rick Graham:

I don't think many people ever use them as nuts intentionally, its more if it walks deeper into a crack opens then cams could still potentially hold a fall, especially if it's only 2 of the cams that have opened. I'd have thought the potential for this is greater with microcams as the difference between cammed and open might only be a couple of mm.

 Jimbo C 24 Sep 2024
In reply to pec:

I replaced several cams recently and did a bit of research on this. The smallest cam that I know of with passive strength is a blue Z4 (size 0.3) by virtue of it being double axle. That's hardly micro though as that is the smallest 'standard cam' size in most companies ranges.

To be honest, I struggle with cams any smaller than that. Finding a really good placement for them seems difficult because small irregularities in the rock become a more important factor.

If there was a crucial small slot on a route I was really set on doing, I would probably look at ball nuts instead.

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 PaulJepson 24 Sep 2024
In reply to Jimbo C:

On grit I won't usually carry smaller than a black totem but I regularly find really good micro cams on limestone and volcanic rock. Especially where cracks have been worn out by small wires being pulled through to create almost parallel slots. 

 Jimbo C 25 Sep 2024
In reply to PaulJepson:

Good point. On grit, the irregularities often make up a significant proportion of the available camming range for small cams. Less so on smoother rock types (or worn slots like you say).

 Ramon Marin 25 Sep 2024
In reply to Rick Graham:

A cam stop make a cam more durable, without a cam stop in micros if not placed properly and take a fall they normally have to be binned. With cam stops the lobes don't go backwards. I would never thought cams stops really were designed as passive protection, even if it can do that.

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 Rick Graham 25 Sep 2024
In reply to Ramon Marin:

> A cam stop make a cam more durable, without a cam stop in micros if not placed properly and take a fall they normally have to be binned. With cam stops the lobes don't go backwards. I would never thought cams stops really were designed as passive protection, even if it can do that.

I would not know about that, gear I place usually only fails if the rock gives out

Only long falls with gear ripping on aid pitches where I have been trying too hard.

 Ramon Marin 25 Sep 2024
In reply to Rick Graham:

I take plenty falls on gear place in extremis and small cams are hard to adjust when you are at your limit, casing point at the very top of The Cruise at Upper Tier two weekends ago where I placed the small dragonfly blind before the last move as I was very much about to fall off. 


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