UKC

For use in the uk used in a tent, bivying and snowholing.
Down is the best insulator but not when its wet what is classed as too wet for down?!

In reply to Murg:
....what is classed as too wet for down?! Water!

Seriously, use a bivy bag even in a tent if you've got a down bag.

Darren.

In reply to Murg:

Down bag in a bivy bag. Any bag worth its salt will be able to deal with the condensation.

In reply to Darren09:

Eh....bivy bag in a tent?

I've had no problem with a down bag as long as you dont get it directly wet from rain/snow.

In answer to the original post it depends what you want it for.

In reply to mriwbrown:

It is a valid response. I have seen many of ground sheets randomly give up!

In reply to JoshOvki:
Get a better tents then
Assuming you are on a sleeping mat though I should think would be ok

In reply to mriwbrown:

You sleep around zero in a 1 man Tent with a down bag?. Obviously not.

In reply to Darren09:

Yes without a problem.

In reply to Murg:

if regular bivying/snowholing is going to be your thing consider a high quality lightweight synthetic bag and sleep in a down layer to add warmth.

In reply to Murg:

Errr.. Synthetic..

Where do you think the down comes from?
youtube.com/watch?v=q4mbnlcEUaE&

In reply to Guy Atkinson: In reply to Guy Atkinson: I'm not quite sure how your comment is helpful in the debate about down or synthetic. You'll find that there are some ethical manufacturers around - Rab, for example, don't support live plucking: http://www.equipuk.com/rab_sleepingbags/technology.html

In reply to Murg: Thankyou for the help guys, can anyone recommend a good bag?

In reply to Murg:
I've had a down sleeping bag for the last 10 years (can't recommend it sorry as am looking to replace it myself given newer ones seem to be a lot warmer for prob half the weight of my old one)....

BUT - I've used it in a bivy bag, and in tents, in all sorts of conditions and never had a problem with it being too wet. Its got a taffeta lining shell (I think) which does seem to love any moisture so there's times when the outer's been a bit damp to touch, but never seemed to affect the insulation enough to worry about it.

I'd definitely use it inside a bivy bag if snowholing but as someone else has said, on a sleeping pad or thermarest in tent or bivy it's otherwise always been fine. Having said all that, the next one I'm hoping to get which is also down, I'm looking at one with a water resistant outer (Marmot Helium Membrain I think), but haven't had a chance to test whether this is a good move or not as haven't received bag yet...

Hope that's of some help anyway.
Rebecca

In reply to rebeccam: Thanks for your tips rebbecca thats really helpful.
Murg

In reply to Guy Atkinson: For anyone interested:

http://www.alpkit.com/colab/notes/ethical-down-sourcing-part-2/

In reply to Murg:

It all rather depends on how long you're going to be out and how wet it will be. I had to throw a down bag away after one miserable week of bivvying - it never recovered. Thereafter, synthetic all the way if bivying in the UK. The extra weight is worth the good second/third etc might's sleep. In a tent, down, unless it's sure to be tipping it down.

In reply to nniff: Thanks nniff, how did you get your bag so wet?

In reply to Darren09:


Well, that depends on the tent...

Condensation in a bivy bag could leave your down bag wetter than if you didn't use a bivvy bag, thus allowing the insensible perspiration to escape from the sleeping bag into the tent.

If the tent suffers from condensation, and drips onto the bag, then the shell fabric of the bag is likely to keep most of the water from the insulation; a damp shell isn't a big problem. Damp within the insulation is. And that's where condensation will occur in a down bag in a bivvy bag; at the dew point, which is likely to be within the body of the insulation.

In reply to Murg:

It rained heabily and non-stop for a week, day and night, and with no cover whatsoever it didn't take long for things to unravel. Similar outings with a synthetic bag were a revelation - go to bed wet, sleep warm and wake up dry.

In reply to Murg:

Down + = lightweight, small packsize. Lasts 4-5 times longer than a synthetic bag, so not actually as expensive when considered over the life of the product.
Down - = rubbish when wet and takes ages to dry out.

Synthetic + = good performance when wet and dries quicker. Cheaper initial purchase.
Synthetic - = Higher weight and bulk than down, especially at cheap end of the market.

If you're mainly camping out of the back of a car, then a decent quality synthetic bag will be all you need. Avoid the cheap ones with the polycotton inner fabric, though.

If you're planning on carrying it, then a down bag should be a lighter option, although even in a tent I'd be inclined to use a bivvy bag, unless you get something like the ME ones with the DriLite outer, or MH ones with Conduit outer. In addition, if you use a bivvy bag inside a tent, then you're adding extra insulation, so you can then use a slightly lighter bag for the same warmth, so the weight issue should trade off in this situation.

In summary, if weight/size is an issue, then go for down. If not, then a top synthetic one is so close to down in terms of performance, but without the hassles of ownership, that I'd probably go for one of those.