/ Finance options on kit

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GHawksworth 08 Nov 2019

Through a newsletter, I've just seen that Jottnar now offer finance options for their apparel. 

I've always been taught to be wary of finance options when buying expensive items following the mentality of "if you can't afford it now, don't buy it now."

I (kind of) understand using finance options for big expensive items that you'll use for years and years, like houses (a mortgage), TV's, sofas, phones, even cars with their depreciation etc. but surely FO for a jacket is a bit absurd?

Is it just me?

Or just a way for them to attract people who may not be able to afford their kit and look more affordable than it is?

Are they also the first outdoor apparel company to do this or do you know of others?

Post edited at 21:42
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daWalt 08 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

you never got an adidas tracksuit from the littlewoods catalogue before?

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Dave the Rave 08 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

PayPal credit. 4 months at 0 percent makes some things very affordable if you divide the total by 4 and can afford those repayments. 

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nathan79 08 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

At Jöttnar prices it's needed!

But no, they're not alone. I've seen a few companies that do this, mostly for more expensive items (i.e. a good few hundred pounds and above) such as tents.

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Dave Cundy 08 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

Call me old fashioned but i always thought that finance for anything cheaper than a newish car was daft.

I don't care what the interest rate is.  Finance is only there to make it easier to fritter away your money on stuff you don't really need.

And yes, there is a bit of scots/yorkshire ancestry kicking about
The quicker you spend it, the longer you'll wait to quit work because 'you can't afford it'.

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oldie 09 Nov 2019
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> Call me old fashioned but i always thought that finance for anything cheaper than a newish car was daft.  I don't care what the interest rate is.  Finance is only there to make it easier to fritter away your money on stuff you don't really need. <

I've always lived that way too. However I'm from a comfortable middle class background.

My wife frequently reminds me that her family often needed to borrow money just for basics, usually short term from friends and family. If that option wasn't available then the daft sounding pay day loans or hire purchase might be necessary.

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teh_mark 09 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

Nevermind expensive jackets, I bought a pair of leggings and a pair of trousers last week. Both comfortably under £100, and both had short-term 0% finance offers advertised.

Who on Earth is going to take out finance to buy a £40 pair of leggings!?

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captain paranoia 09 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

Alpkit, too, on orders over £500. Through Klarna.

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Dell 09 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

Short answer, people are broke.

Maybe not yourself, or people that you know, but lots of people are. A lot of them hide this fact with maxxed out credit cards etc. 

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r0x0r.wolfo 09 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

You're not alone, I agree. Although it doesn't make me popular with the UKC editors, another option to finance is to buy better value kit. I say this as an owner of the Jottnar Fjorm jacket by the way. 

Now that's not to say a £400 jacket isn't going to be a lot better than a £40 jacket or a fair bit better £100 or a bit flashier than a £200 jacket. But it's never 10x / 4x / 2x better and it can sometimes be worse! There are a few cases where this doesn't always hold true but for clothing this rule of diminishing returns is usually the case.

People have done great things and operated at the highest level without spending £120 on special climbing jeans or £20 for a few hundred grams of chalk or a grand for a three man tent. Any time you are buying 'top of the range' you are always getting a pretty poor deal. 

If you're loaded, sponsored, or happen to get stuff sent for free like a product tester then you might advocate for the very most expensive gear. If you're not one of these people, it's really not worth getting into debt for. 

Post edited at 17:23
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SenzuBean 09 Nov 2019
In reply to teh_mark:

> Nevermind expensive jackets, I bought a pair of leggings and a pair of trousers last week. Both comfortably under £100, and both had short-term 0% finance offers advertised.

When I used to work in retail a number of years ago, we'd see that the 0% finance deals had a cost to the retailer (sometimes up to 10% of margin), which we'd have to work into our pricing. Not many customers would have known that discounts given during 0% finance promotions (whether advertised discounts, or discretionary from staff) were woefully bad compared to times of the month when there were no 0% finance deals running.
We were also not allowed to provide different prices whether customers wanted to pay cash or use finance - so we always gave a single price assuming they would take the 0% finance, even if they were going to pay cash.
In other words - just the mere presence of a 0% finance deal likely makes things more expensive for cash buyers too.

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SenzuBean 09 Nov 2019
In reply to SenzuBean:

> sometimes up to 10% of margin

Actually it was 19.5% sometimes (!), for 48 months interest free.

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Damo 09 Nov 2019
In reply to SenzuBean:

> ... just the mere presence of a 0% finance deal likely makes things more expensive for cash buyers too.

Exactly, so everyone pays more to cover the shopaholics. Here in Australia the big 'success' story is Afterpay, and most outdoor retailers have it.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/our-margins-are-slim-as-it-is-retailers-lift-prices-to-cover-afterpay-costs-20191023-p533c2.html

https://www.abc.net.au/life/afterpay-paypal-and-zip-pay-making-us-buy-more/11604216

The world is awash with 'stuff' and so much of what we buy is wasted. There is already a cost to all this, environmentally and otherwise, and these financial instruments just make it worse - and then make all of us pay more again on top of that.

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galpinos 09 Nov 2019
In reply to GHawksworth:

My mother drummed into me the, "if you can't pay up front you can't afford it*" attitude so I've never even noticed the finance options on climbing kit. it's absurd. If you need finance, but a cheaper version.

* Mortgages were allowed and a credit card that's cleared monthly for internet purchases acceptable. Cars still bought in cash.

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Timmd 10 Nov 2019
In reply to galpinos:

I guess it depends on things like patience, and maybe how old one is (got to go climbing before I'm too old) or how up to fitness and things, regarding saving for gear. I have in mind that by next June I'll have saved up enough for a rack, or enough to replace my rope and slings, and add some mechanical bits and pieces to my rack. I've been building up a steel disc road bike for the winter weather since approx April, and I'm just about at the point of having the wheels built up and putting the bits on the frame. 

Post edited at 19:42
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Diddy 12:09 Tue

Buy cheap,buy twice. I have done it and now try to avoid it. Now better off though so I can keep away from deals. Car dealers and shops  get commission on finance deals

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Andypeak 12:58 Tue
In reply to teh_mark:

> Nevermind expensive jackets, I bought a pair of leggings and a pair of trousers last week. Both comfortably under £100, and both had short-term 0% finance offers advertised.

> Who on Earth is going to take out finance to buy a £40 pair of leggings!?

If the interest is 0% it makes financial sense to take the finance. Better the cash be sitting in your account making some interest than sitting in theirs. Admittedly it would be a tiny amount in this case. 

I pay for everything on a credit card, not because I haven't got the cash but because I get 1 % cash back on all purchases. At the end of the year it results in me getting a lump of cash just before Christmas for doing nothing. 

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LastBoyScout 14:12 Tue
In reply to Andypeak:

Everything I buy online is via a cash-back website - that's paid for all sorts of things.

My credit cards also get cash back to some degree.

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Timmd 18:09 Fri
In reply to Andypeak:

I'd never heard of cash back, fancy that!

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