UKC

OK so your climbing helmet should only be for climbing as it's designed more for impact from above, whereas a bike helmet is designed more to protect the sides of your head in a fall.

But how strict should we be on this? I'm looking ahead to Saturday when I plan to cycle 15 or so miles to go climbing. I'm fastidious about helmets in both climbing and cycling, but also keen to minimise load. So (apart from looking funny), would it be REALLY wrong to use my Black Diamond HalfDome as a bike helmet?

Aren't some helmets designed as multi purpose anyway, for use in adventure racing?

In reply to Kenny:

I'd say climbing helmets are also designed for a side impact, as they potentialy have to protect you in the event of falling off in a traverse situation.
Cycling helmets seam to be a lighter design and take into account ventilation far more than the bog standard climbing helmet.
I always wear a helmet when on the bike, I also wear one most days for work as I work in the rope access industry where I know the helmets are designed to take a side impact. I have to admit I do not wear one climbing unless I feel there is a chance of stonefall. I often wonder why I do not as it is second nature when at work, and know people where a helmet saved them having far more serious injuries - and people who would have walked away if the had worn a helmet.
On the bike I think any helmet is better than none as it's quite often a blind driver who is out to get you.

In reply to Kenny: rather wear your bike helmet for climbing, cycle helmets offer more or less the same protection all round climbing helmets are def biased towards crown impact, also riding 15 miles in a half dome will cook your head

In reply to Kenny:

You could just take both, they don't actually weight that much, just a bit bulky.

In reply to Ian Straton:

Would agree with you there, if you think of what damage a car, van, lorry , etc could do. It must be close to or on parr with climbing. Not on the ball with gear, but some of the petzl helmets closely resemble cycle helmets.

In reply to MeMeMe:

yeah it's the bulk I was trying to cut down on. think I'll just take both. Half Dome will protect my clunky bulky old heavy SLR inside the bag

there may be versatile all-round "adventure" helmets but I don't have one!

In reply to Kenny:

ANY kind of helmet is better than no helmet at all.

In reply to Kenny:


No, are you mad? Only the appropriate helmet should be used for each activity, EU stamped after inspection less than 12 months ago.

All helmets should be discarded after exposure to sunlight, rain, the slightest knock (this can cause micro delamination which is visible only with an ultra-sonic scanner) or, of course, after any injunction to do so by the authorities. Can't be too careful, you know, if you are hurt it will cost the community more than you and such behavior is really both foolhardy and anti-social.

If in doubt, the best thing is to show your proposed helmet to the nearest chemist, as one does for wild mushrooms, they'll issue the required chit for road use after inspection. While you're there I would advise you to have the length of your bicycle pump checked at the same time (all done for the standard 14€ cover charge, so why hesitate?); there have been a spate of nasty accidents lately due to non-standard pumps. Be careful to walk to the chemist pushing the bike after removing the chain to avoid any risk of accusation of unsafe, anti-social pedaling.

Come to think of it, it's probably better advised to stay in bed, provided you don't use an electric blanket, of course….

In reply to Kenny: You can get a helmet (can't remember who makes it) which is designed for cycling, climbing, canoeing and several other things. I think this will be the next one I buy once I've written off my current cycling helmet.

In reply to Dave80: Camp Startech is designed for climbing and kayaking - can't remember if it says cycling as well.

In reply to Dave80:

Kong - that's the one you're thinking of. The big jump is approval for equestrian use too - has to put up with a Suffolk Punch using your head as a football or something

In reply to Kenny:

If you are only going to use one helmet for both cycling and climbing, I would rather use my bike helmet.

I wouldnt fancy cycling in a climbing hat - would be a bit warm!

Alternatively, why not just put your climbing helmet in your pack? I assume you are taking some gear with you?

In reply to Kenny:

I've cycled in my climbing helmet before - but only along the forest tracks into Pillar Rock.

Seemed to work and protect the side of my head perfectly adequately when I very embarrasingly fell off on an almost flat piece of track (long story - combination of heavy rucsac and too much Champagne - it was my birthday)

In reply to Dave80: The Kong Scarab is certified for climbing, cycling, kayaking and equestrianism. It doesn't seem to be easy to find in the UK, but Telemark Pyrenees list it at 83 Euro in VAT. The Salewa Helium is certifed for climbing, cycling and (according to the PlanetFear shop) kayaking. Needlesports list it as well as PlanetFear. According to Cotswold Outdoor, the Camp Silver Star is also certifed for climbing, cycling and kayaking. Again, it's also available from Needlesports, as well as Field and Trek. Happy shopping!

In reply to Kenny: Did anyone read the feature in last weeks Cycling Weekly about helmets, the fact that helmets aren't going to help you much if you get hit by a car traveling faster than 15 mph. Or that people wearring them are more likly to take risks and car drivers seeing a cyclist wearing a helmet are more likely to take risks overtaking them.

In reply to P Bradwell: I didn't see the article but I'm sure The Last Man will mention it at some point, if he hasn't already (altough he may choose to gloss over the bit about cyclists taking risks).

In reply to Martin W: I was in Needlesports last week and bought a Salewa Helium. Really comfy and light as anything. It's CE marked EN 1078 and EN 12492. which are the standards for cycling/skateboarding helmets and mountaineering helmets respectively. There's no CE mark on the helmet for kayaking.

They also had a new model Salewa helmet (which doesn't even seem to be on the Salewa web site yet) which also met EN 1384 (equestrianism) and EN 1385 (canoeing and white water sports). It was the same price as the Helium and seemed to weigh about the same, but I didn't think it was as comfortable and it looked - well, a bit weird!

In reply to Kenny: http://www.snowandrock.com/shop/department/accessories/clothing/helmets/pro...

In reply to Kenny: just get a giro bad lieutenant. built in tunes

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
>...

LO very L. Just the lines I was thinking along!

In reply to Kenny:
...would it be REALLY wrong to use my Black Diamond HalfDome as a bike helmet?
Blimey! The words 'anal' and 'retentive' spring to mind.

In reply to Scranner:

you must NEVER use a climbing helmet for cycling and vice versa. get the right ones for all sports.

So, for a multi action weekend travelling by motorcycle you need;

motorcyle, climbing, caving, cycling, canoeing, helmets.

now all you need is a sack big enough to take five helmets and all the rest of your gear.

In reply to Kenny:

A few years ago, whilst off-road on my mountain bike in a wood, I went over the handle bars. I was travelling quite fast and landed on my head.

When I arrived in A&E, the Doctor who examined me asked if I'd been wearing a helmet. He then took one look at the shattered helmet and said "if you'd not been wearing this, you would have been dead". I didn't climb for the next 10 months.

Kenny you have two choices:

1. take a prudent approach and use the correct safety equipment; or

2. assume the important role in society of "potential organ donor".

In reply to sutty: i needz a bigger bag then.

In reply to khaoist:

Yep

In reply to Kenny: Your cycle helmet will not offer protection against more than one piece of falling debris and certainly not any piece small enough to fit through a vent, though it will probably still kill you.

You climbing helmet if it is a hard hat type will not offer much protection for your bonce when it has to absorb the energy of your entire bodyweight travelling at 15mph+ hitting the ground head first. The deceleration forces will probably kill you.

I fall of my bike far more than hit my head when i climb. my cycling helmet has saved my life several times my climbing one not yet.


Please wear your cycle helmet on your bike it will save your life.

In reply to Kenny:

thanks all (well not everyone actually!) for replies. i wouldn't dream of using a bike helmet for climbing, silly

i did not know of the existence of multi-activity helmets, I'll look into the Camp and Kong ones if I do much more cycling to the crag.

In reply to sutty:

You forgot skydiving, paragliding, and german. The latter comes equipped in most cases with its own holdall, though.

In reply to Kenny:I just put my helmet in the top of my sack and sinch the lid down so it stays put,helmets don't really weigh much. Or i clip the lid strap through the helmet straps so it hangs on the outside.

In reply to Kenny:Was thinking a lighter set of crabs might make more difference for when climbing,in magazines they always seem to talk about the weight of wheels being one of the most important things to make lighter due to thier spinning weight being higher than when they're not,carrying an extra 400 grams or so in your rucksack mightn't make much difference when you're cycling.()Happy cycling/climbing.

In reply to Kenny:THe 400 grams being the second helmet.
Tim

In reply to Kenny:

You could lighten the load by leaving your ego at home

Ho hum, more helmut hokum...

A few years ago, whilst off-road on my mountain bike in a wood, I went over the handle bars. I was travelling quite fast and landed on my head.

When I arrived in A&E, the Doctor who examined me asked if I'd been wearing a helmet. He then took one look at the shattered helmet and said "if you'd not been wearing this, you would have been dead". I didn't climb for the next 10 months.

... my cycling helmet has saved my life several times.


Just a few points as I pass by...

1) Cycle helmets are only capable of doing what they are designed to- that is prevent cuts and mild concussion in impacts at speeds of up to 12.5 MPH, or 14 Mph for the highest rated helmets. Cycle helmets are NOT designed to absorb the sort of impacts which arise as a rseult of being hit by a motor vehicle travelling at speed.

2) Impact load rises with the square of the speed so it is not the case that in a helmet will reduce a 30 Mph impact to the equivalent of a 15 Mph impact. In fact at 42 Mph a helmet will only reduce the impact load to the equivalent of a 40.5 Mph 'unhelmeted' impact, too small a difference to 'save lives'. Even the behaviour of polystyrene hats must obey the laws of physics!

3) Anyone who looks at a broken helmet and claims that the fact it has broken up is evidence that it has 'saved lives' is quite frankly talking out of their arse. The little energy that a cycle helmet can absorb is absorbed by means of the polystyrene shell compressing down. In a high impact situation the shell is very likely not to work as intended and to simply break up offering little or no protection. (Think of just how easy it is to break up a piece of polystyrene foam as opposed to crushing it between your fingers). Unfortunately modern helmets are so full of holes that catastrophic failure in a high impact situation is the norm.

4) Yes a helmet might prevent a nasty and painful head injury and I would rather be wearing a helmet if someone were to hit me over the head. HOWEVER it is not scalp injuries or mild concussion or even skull fractures which kill, it is brain injuries. Many of these arise from the way the brain sloshes around inside the skull in a high energy impact (think of the damage done to boxers even they they wear gloves). The rotational and shear injuries which cause such brain damage cannot be reduced by a cycle helmet and the size and mass of a helmet may actually make them worse...

5) Yes, there is evidence that drivers are more willing to take risks with the safety of a helmeted cyclist than an unhelmeted cyclist. Some of these effects are quite subtle. For example TRL report 549 found that drivers will overtake a helmeted cyclist more closely and at a higher speed than an unhelmeted cyclist because the wearing of a helmet is perceived to be the mark of a 'serious' cyclist who is less likely to 'wobble' and so may be passed within few inches..


Brian Walker of Head Protection Evaluations of Farnham in Surrey (the principal UK test laboratory for helmets and head protection systems of all kinds) wrote the following about the level of protection offered by cycle helmets:

In a recent Court case, a respected materials specialist argued that a cyclist who was brain injured from what was essentially a fall from her cycle, without any real forward momentum, would not have had her injuries reduced or prevented by a cycle helmet. This event involved contact against a flat tarmac surface with an impact energy potential of no more than 75 joules (his estimate, with which I was in full agreement). The court found in favour of his argument. So a High Court has decided that cycle helmets do not prevent injury even when falling from a cycle onto a flat surface, with little forward momentum. Cycle helmets will almost always perform much better against a flat surface than any other. In every other legal case with which I have been involved, where a cyclist has been in collision with a motorised vehicle, the impact energy potentials generated were of a level which outstripped those we use to certify Grand Prix drivers helmets. In some accidents at even moderate motor vehicle speeds, energy potential levels in hundreds of joules were present.

...Referring back to the Court case mentioned early, the very eminent QC under whose instruction I was privileged to work, tried repeatedly to persuade the equally eminent neurosurgeons acting for either side, and the technical expert, to state that one must be safer wearing a helmet than without. All three refused to so do, stating that they had seen severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and without cycle helmets being worn. In their view, the performance of cycle helmets is much too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim to be made.


For the most part those who promote cycle helmets simply the ill-informed and car centric who regard polystyrene hats as being a substitute for other politically more 'difficult' safety measures which would actually be far more effective in saving lives, such as improving driver and rider skills and reducing vehicle speeds to a less fatal level so ensuring that the consequences would be less severe when someone made an 'error'.

In reply to Kenny: The protection from ANY helmet, be it climbing, skateboard, ski, canoe, bike or even motorcycle is the polystyrene INSIDE. The shell protects the poly! What you need to consider is movement of the helmet on your head, and comfort (such as heat/ventilation and weight ).

In reply to Kenny: Helium helmet is rated for both.