UKC

I have just received, in the post, a pair of La Sportiva Mantras.

This is a big departure for me, having previously had La Sportiva disasters - my foot shape did not fit my Solutions which i subsequently sold and a pair of La Sportiva fell shoes I had decided that they wanted eat my ankles. 

That said, my Mantras are looking positive. 

So, in short. Is anyone out there a no edge user and what are your thoughts?

(I ususally climb in Dragos / Veloces which I like. This purchase was prompted by me absolutely hating my new styles Instinct S which I have absolutely not got on with. Size 40 if any one wants to make an offer. Worn maybe 8 times?

In reply to bouldery bits:

Really rather liked the futura, super indoor and on the grit, never wore it for much else though

In reply to bouldery bits:

I’ve been using no edge LaSpo shoes for quite a few years already. Mostly Speedsters and Maverinks, but also Futuras… even have a pair of people 510 Quantum’s resoled with no edge for harder sport climbs… that being said, I’m predominantly a boulder these days, and no edge works really well for it. At least on granite and sandstone. With regular soled shoes, I find that on smaller holds, they loose their optimal performance quite soon. So for me, no edge is also a cost thing… I get pretty much good performance from the start to when I’ve blown the sole, after which I send ‘em for a resole.

In reply to bouldery bits:

All my shoes are "no edge" after a depressingly short time

In reply to bouldery bits:

Looking at no edge shoes (rather than wearing them), I can't help but feel it isn't as radically different from an edged shoe as the designers/sales team make out. It looks just like an edged shoe, but without coming to a sharp angle anywhere. I feel like the midsole and softness/stiffness would be much more decisive factors in terms of, e.g., feel, edging, smearing, smedging. Am I missing something?

In reply to bouldery bits:

I recently got myself a pair of Mantras to use mainly indoors, and they feel great. Not sure if it's the no edge or just how soft they are but they seem to suit indoor lead climbing.

I've only used them outdoors on some sandstone bouldering (felt pretty good), but doubt I'd use them on hard sport climbing as I'm a heavier climber and they are a very soft shoe. A friend who climbs at a higher level, and loves no-edge recommended the LS Genius for that.

Hope that helps

Jim

In reply to C Witter:

I would actually say that they are. So like I mentioned above, I have 510 Quantums with No Edge soles retrofitted to them... but I also have the exact same non-modded Quantums (well had). So ne thing that I found out, that the no edge one stays consistent performance pretty much from when you first slab 'em on, until you get a gash on the outer no-edge rubber. Where as standard soled shoes are first good at edging (and precise), since they actually have a nice precise edge on them... this will not last long though. So after a while you have a bad edge (and often loose performance). And finally you get another performance boost when the sole is almost like a no edge one... but that doesn't last long, before you get a hole in them.

That being said, no-edge soles are not perfect for everything... like a really small edge (dime sized) on slick rock. Due to the sole edge missing, you might not just be able to utilize it at all... instead what you need to do is smear around that spot... on sand stone, grit or in most cases granite, that might work ok... but not always. So when climbing with no-edge shoes, you are basically always smearing. You might stand on a small hold, but you're also smearing around it. Which can be beneficial, but not always (see above, small hold or small hold in a tight space).

And indeed one thing is, that pretty much all of the no-edge shoes are soft. Even Genius and Futura. So it is not suited for those that prefer support from stiffer soles.

Edited to add the point I was trying to make above (in my earlier reply)... is that at least for me, the main point with no-edge shoes, is that they give consistent performance pretty much for the duration of the sole. Where as with regular soled shoes, the performance is ever changing. You start with a really good sharp edge (great on small lists or standing in nubbins), but often the shoe has not yet been broken in (even if you resoled it). As you get more comfortable on the shoe, the edge is rounding off, so giving you worse performance then with a good one... this will continue until near the end when you have an effective no-sole due to all the wear. But that boost is often really short lived. So previously I went through a few pairs (or resoles) each season (spring, summer and fall outdoor bouldering and some roped stuff as well). Now I can often get a full season and indeed even majority of indoor season (fall-winter-spring) out of one pair of no-edge shoes (new or a resole). So I have a financial incentive, but also a performance one. And I also have regular soled shoes, so if a particular route or problem requires an edge on the sole... or stiffer sole, I have something for those situations... but I have not had to resort to that in the last 2 or 3 years IIRC. 

In reply to bouldery bits:

I've had a pair of Mantras and loved them on any high friction or steep rock. I have katanas and Miuras for more edge dependent things. The last is very similar. 

In reply to HeMa:

Thanks for taking the time to reply

In reply to bouldery bits:

Well, my first session in Mantras was eye opening. For indoor bouldering, incredible. Not sure it's just the no edge, the fit seems to work for me, not especially asymmetric and I like the softness. They need to stretch a little bit not lots. Great on overhangs and surprisingly good on slabs! 

HeMa, where did you get your quantums soles in no edge? I have a pair of well loved purple quantums but they are fully at the end. 

Big tick. 

Instinct S still for sale.... 

In reply to bouldery bits:

Greece Gearge did that... before he closed his shop, and started shoe design/fabrication work for BD or something like that.

You could perhaps email and ask ShoeDoctor from Slovenia, if they could do it
https://shoedoctor.eu/en/us/

But also perhaps inquire the local usual suspects... the ones that do normal no edge resoles...

In reply to bouldery bits:

I used Speedsters as my main sport climbing shoe for quite a while, remember them taking a bit of getting used to initially and then loved them once I did.

Always kept an edging shoe in my bag though, as occasionally there would be a crucial sequence on a route that went better with edges.

I found that the edgeless worked better in most circumstances, but when it didn't work, it *really* didn't work, where the edging shoes were a bit more consistent.

I went back to edging shoes when I quit my job and went travelling, as it would cost too much to keep replacing them, and resolers were only interested in putting a flat sole on them at the time. Interesting to hear you can get edgeless resoles now.

In reply to bouldery bits:

I am a big fan of the Genius. Excellent for steep climbing and pasting onto blobs found in modern indoor bouldering, perhaps not so good on small pockets or finely incut footholds where in reality only shoes like the Miura lace or similar excel.

No edge is excellent on the grit as well limestone, Swiss gneiss and lakes gabbo and Rocklands sandstone.

My first outdoor experience with the Genius was after failing to get anywhere on C3PO/Bobba Fett Boulder at the Roaches I donned my fresh out of the box pair and proceeded to simply walk up all the slab climbs in succession. I climbed my first then following 8A boulders outside boulders with them too.

The only downside and this might be more of a reflection on the shoe rather than the technology is that the rubber thickness is usually a lot less than on equivalent shoes such as the Solution or Instincts. The Genius heel and small toe rubber patch are also failing in my view but I switch back and forth with the Solution for my needs.

In reply to bouldery bits:

I'm a huge fan of my Geniuses (plural of Genius? or Genii?) They almost feel like cheating. As for the concern about the rubber being thin, I think because you tend to spread the point of contact more, they wear really well. To my surprise, they also resole well (kudos to Llanberis Resoles).

Cheers, Dom 

In reply to bouldery bits:

I rather like No Edge as a concept, I tried Mantras but they're just too soft for anything but padding up volumes. Genius I really really wanted to like as a more supportive version, but something about the geometry of the toe-box makes my feet hurt like hell in them.

Shame as I do prefer the style of pasting a bit patch of rubber over and around small footholds, rather than relying on an edge.....but I haven't found the shoe that works for me.