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Wondering what people prefare when it comes to ways to hold your axes: velcro or bungee. what do people think?
Andy
Andy
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: bungee works best for me
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Got to go with the bungee ones (SCARL on the POD Black Ice) Velcro gets gummed up and the plastic buckles that Lowe Alpine used (still use?) are fiddly with gloves.
HTH
PeterM
Got to go with the bungee ones (SCARL on the POD Black Ice) Velcro gets gummed up and the plastic buckles that Lowe Alpine used (still use?) are fiddly with gloves.
HTH
PeterM
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I've only ever used sacks with the old style tape+buckle, so either would probably be an improvement!
Bungee is probably easier and posibly more secure?
I've only ever used sacks with the old style tape+buckle, so either would probably be an improvement!
Bungee is probably easier and posibly more secure?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
My sack is velcro which ive never had issues with - summer or winter.
What i have noticed with bungee though, is if the bag isnt well packed, or there is something solid near the bottom then the axe obviously won't bend to follow the profile of the bag so the bungee stretches and the spike of the axe therefore sticks out the back at an angle which is dangerous for anyone following you as it usually aims directly at your eyes!
And before anyone mentions that you should pack your bag better - may i point out that some people can be very offended by criticism and quite ignorant to any advice. (aka Tom!)
My sack is velcro which ive never had issues with - summer or winter.
What i have noticed with bungee though, is if the bag isnt well packed, or there is something solid near the bottom then the axe obviously won't bend to follow the profile of the bag so the bungee stretches and the spike of the axe therefore sticks out the back at an angle which is dangerous for anyone following you as it usually aims directly at your eyes!
And before anyone mentions that you should pack your bag better - may i point out that some people can be very offended by criticism and quite ignorant to any advice. (aka Tom!)
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I tend to tuck them down the side compression straps. Does this mean my sack is really old?
> Wondering what people prefare when it comes to ways to hold your axes: velcro or bungee. what do people think?
>
>
I tend to tuck them down the side compression straps. Does this mean my sack is really old?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Another one in the mix - tubes with buckle bottom (e.g. 2003 Karrimor Alpine Lite/Alpiniste). Advantage over loops: axe can be removed while on the move without taking rucksack off. Downside: open buckle can become clogged with ice making it difficult to close later when replacing axes.
Another one in the mix - tubes with buckle bottom (e.g. 2003 Karrimor Alpine Lite/Alpiniste). Advantage over loops: axe can be removed while on the move without taking rucksack off. Downside: open buckle can become clogged with ice making it difficult to close later when replacing axes.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
My old Black Diamond Ice pack has two slots for the axes and they're fasten with buckles at the bottom. Good thing is I can take the axe out while I'm still wearing the pack. Bad thing is when the buckles trap snow and freeze they're totally useless! Neat design but poor detail (the buckles).
Sometimes I just use the side straps. Otherwise I quite like bungee on other packs.
My old Black Diamond Ice pack has two slots for the axes and they're fasten with buckles at the bottom. Good thing is I can take the axe out while I'm still wearing the pack. Bad thing is when the buckles trap snow and freeze they're totally useless! Neat design but poor detail (the buckles).
Sometimes I just use the side straps. Otherwise I quite like bungee on other packs.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: I've always preferred the tape loops at the bottom/ buckled strap atthe top style. To me it's the one that seems much more secure. Bungee seems very flimsy and I've never liked them for that purpose.
Harry.
Harry.
In reply to johnsdowens:
After I posted my message I realised we have almost same comments... :^)
After I posted my message I realised we have almost same comments... :^)
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Never had velcro, but the idea does not appeal.
New sack has bungees, but they are too short to take my walking axe (fine for short ice axes)
Mostly had buckles on my old sacks and liked the security of them.
Never had velcro, but the idea does not appeal.
New sack has bungees, but they are too short to take my walking axe (fine for short ice axes)
Mostly had buckles on my old sacks and liked the security of them.
In reply to PeterM:
Even replaced the buckle ones on an old Lowe Alpine 'sac when I found the same cord clips as used by POD so could make my own very cheaply and to suit my own axe lengths.
PeterM
Even replaced the buckle ones on an old Lowe Alpine 'sac when I found the same cord clips as used by POD so could make my own very cheaply and to suit my own axe lengths.
PeterM
In reply to 220bpm:
Did you try to thread the axe through the bungee? I know people who do this, which is not what they're designed for.
If you put the axe on top of the bungee, then wrap the bungee around the shaft and thread the plastic puller through the bungee loop, the puller will be caught by the loop and hold your axe.
In theory this will hold any axe. However if the bungee is thin it might not feel secure on heavy/long axes.
Did you try to thread the axe through the bungee? I know people who do this, which is not what they're designed for.
If you put the axe on top of the bungee, then wrap the bungee around the shaft and thread the plastic puller through the bungee loop, the puller will be caught by the loop and hold your axe.
In theory this will hold any axe. However if the bungee is thin it might not feel secure on heavy/long axes.
In reply to jamestheyip:
Ah, how daft do I feel now!!
Thanks for that James, I'm off home shortly to give that a try......doh
> (In reply to 220bpm)
> Did you try to thread the axe through the bungee? I know people who do this, which is not what they're designed for.
> If you put the axe on top of the bungee, then wrap the bungee around the shaft and thread the plastic puller through the bungee loop, the puller will be caught by the loop and hold your axe.
> In theory this will hold any axe. However if the bungee is thin it might not feel secure on heavy/long axes.
> Did you try to thread the axe through the bungee? I know people who do this, which is not what they're designed for.
> If you put the axe on top of the bungee, then wrap the bungee around the shaft and thread the plastic puller through the bungee loop, the puller will be caught by the loop and hold your axe.
> In theory this will hold any axe. However if the bungee is thin it might not feel secure on heavy/long axes.
Ah, how daft do I feel now!!
Thanks for that James, I'm off home shortly to give that a try......doh
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Don't have an ice axe, but do use the Velcro fastening to hold my walking poles (when collapsed), which is fine until they catch on on something and then the Velcro tends to release to easily, almost lost a pole that way. Not good if need your ice axe to find it isn't there any more.
Don't have an ice axe, but do use the Velcro fastening to hold my walking poles (when collapsed), which is fine until they catch on on something and then the Velcro tends to release to easily, almost lost a pole that way. Not good if need your ice axe to find it isn't there any more.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I'm not very keen on either. Old-style belt-buckle type axe fasteners were too fiddly but at least you knew they wouldn't come undone.
I've no experience with vecro for this but I can imagine it being useless in wet and cold conditions (just a chance of that when you need an ice axe). I have tried bungee and cord grip fastening and it didn't inspire confidence - I could imagine arriving at the foot of the route and wondering where exactly on the walk-in I'd dropped my ice tools!
Personally I far prefer sticking them down through the side compression straps.
I'm not very keen on either. Old-style belt-buckle type axe fasteners were too fiddly but at least you knew they wouldn't come undone.
I've no experience with vecro for this but I can imagine it being useless in wet and cold conditions (just a chance of that when you need an ice axe). I have tried bungee and cord grip fastening and it didn't inspire confidence - I could imagine arriving at the foot of the route and wondering where exactly on the walk-in I'd dropped my ice tools!
Personally I far prefer sticking them down through the side compression straps.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Only used buckles which seem fine, or shoved down the sides into the wand pockets which is better still. Doesn't velcro ice up in certain conditions?
Only used buckles which seem fine, or shoved down the sides into the wand pockets which is better still. Doesn't velcro ice up in certain conditions?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: Shoving them down the sides is better but I prefer bungee for crampons on the back, like Macpac Tuatara for example, the 35L one is ace
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I've had:
1. old metal buckles with a pin and tape with holes in it - secure but fiddly
2. Tape with thread-through nylon buckles - pretty fool proof and straightforward.
3.. Velcro (lots of it) - sticks to gloves
4. Bungee - better than velcro
Overall - old skool thread through tape and nylon wins, largely because you can release it one handed while wearing the sac.
I've had:
1. old metal buckles with a pin and tape with holes in it - secure but fiddly
2. Tape with thread-through nylon buckles - pretty fool proof and straightforward.
3.. Velcro (lots of it) - sticks to gloves
4. Bungee - better than velcro
Overall - old skool thread through tape and nylon wins, largely because you can release it one handed while wearing the sac.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: My POD Blackice has Bungee and I find it one of those things that works aint fiddly and you just dont think about it so it must be good.
Please dont make me aspire to something else that doesnt work as well
Please dont make me aspire to something else that doesnt work as well
In reply to Fawksey: Stick em under the compression straps, tucking the spike into the pocket bit. Can get your axe out quickly if you need, without taking the sack off and pissing about. Also, what's wrong with putting yer poons inside your bag?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I find velcro more secure but use bungee because:
a)that's what my bags came with
b)they still work when covered in ice
I find velcro more secure but use bungee because:
a)that's what my bags came with
b)they still work when covered in ice
In reply to Removed User: Theres bungee for the axes so thats what gets used and Ive never had a problem, there is a bungee cross threaded job for the crampons on the outside so thats what gets used too for the walk in. After that the crampons stay on my feet and at least one axe is in my hand.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I prefere the bungee,quick and simple.Velcro can be a faff,icing up,muddy etc.
Also found the velcro di not hold as well
I prefere the bungee,quick and simple.Velcro can be a faff,icing up,muddy etc.
Also found the velcro di not hold as well
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: thick strong velcro on arcteryx packs works great,bungees stretch too much i think
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Prefer the bungee method, as on my Pod thin ice, velcro filled with snow stops working.
You going into rucsack manufacturing then Andy?
Prefer the bungee method, as on my Pod thin ice, velcro filled with snow stops working.
You going into rucsack manufacturing then Andy?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
neither - chop them off and put axes down side compression. safer and more secure.
neither - chop them off and put axes down side compression. safer and more secure.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I like the "storage tubes" on mine. Reach round the back, hit buckle, and axe slides out into hand. Saves taking sack off to get axes out
I like the "storage tubes" on mine. Reach round the back, hit buckle, and axe slides out into hand. Saves taking sack off to get axes out
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Never use em. Just stick the axes down the sides. You've made comments before about axe loops being dangerous, could you expand a little?
Never use em. Just stick the axes down the sides. You've made comments before about axe loops being dangerous, could you expand a little?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: I used to use bungees but then lost a tool fighting through a very special lochnagar storm, being thrwon around by the wind must have shaken the tool out somehow.
In poor weather, I now clip the axes to the pack to prevent loss.
Now use the side straps, less chance of partner poking their eye out on spikes and holds the picks pointing downwards so if anyone stumbles against them, they'll slide off rather than impale themselves.
Ian having problems logging on
In poor weather, I now clip the axes to the pack to prevent loss.
Now use the side straps, less chance of partner poking their eye out on spikes and holds the picks pointing downwards so if anyone stumbles against them, they'll slide off rather than impale themselves.
Ian having problems logging on
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Neither - I'm a convert to side straps. Can you sell a sac without axe loops, do you think, or is it an expected extra ?
Neither - I'm a convert to side straps. Can you sell a sac without axe loops, do you think, or is it an expected extra ?
In reply to GrahamD: Yup, I'm another one for using the compression straps to hold axes in.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
I pretty much always use the side compression straps. the bungees seem to work ok though, but are sometimes a bit short on some sacs. Velcro works well, but I am always worried about it freezing up the same way jacket velcro does.
I pretty much always use the side compression straps. the bungees seem to work ok though, but are sometimes a bit short on some sacs. Velcro works well, but I am always worried about it freezing up the same way jacket velcro does.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
try 'em in your 'ands! and swing like you are doing plaster board nails!
but seriously side straps, never use loops
> Wondering what people prefare when it comes to ways to hold your axes
try 'em in your 'ands! and swing like you are doing plaster board nails!
but seriously side straps, never use loops
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: It was always claimed that velcro would clog up with snow, but I've never found this. When I bought one of the early Crux packs, fortunately I thought to try it out with a quark. Of course the bungy was too short to go over the axe. Fortunately I was at Peglers and being a good shop they sorted me out with some longer elastic, but I had to walk to one of their other shops to get it! If you had mail ordered a pack and then found that the elastics were too short it would be really annoying.
I have an Osprey pack that holds tools in a smart way. It covers the spikes well, making it very telepherique friendly. Hard to explain so a picture is here: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-carry-ice-axe.html
I have an Osprey pack that holds tools in a smart way. It covers the spikes well, making it very telepherique friendly. Hard to explain so a picture is here: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-carry-ice-axe.html
In reply to TobyA:
But at least if the elastic is too short it's easily replaced!
Too short velcro would be more tricky as it's usually stitched.
But at least if the elastic is too short it's easily replaced!
Too short velcro would be more tricky as it's usually stitched.
In reply to TobyA:
I have a lowe alpine bag that covers the picks like that, my kimmlite bag holds them in a similar way too, but the ends of the picks are still exposed.
I have a lowe alpine bag that covers the picks like that, my kimmlite bag holds them in a similar way too, but the ends of the picks are still exposed.
In reply to TobyA:
You don't need to pull the bungee over the axe. The loop wraps around the shaft and the plastic puller thread through the loop like a coat button. See my earlier thread 13th from the top.
You don't need to pull the bungee over the axe. The loop wraps around the shaft and the plastic puller thread through the loop like a coat button. See my earlier thread 13th from the top.
In reply to TobyA:
However some pullers (like the one on my Grivel Airtech28) are the small spring loaded ones like this:
http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLB
I found them too small to hook on the loop properly and tends to slip so I replaced them with this:
http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLA2
I think Burghaus rucksacks use them. They work better for winter (less clogging) and cost only 10p each!
However some pullers (like the one on my Grivel Airtech28) are the small spring loaded ones like this:
http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLB
I found them too small to hook on the loop properly and tends to slip so I replaced them with this:
http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLA2
I think Burghaus rucksacks use them. They work better for winter (less clogging) and cost only 10p each!
In reply to jamestheyip: Good idea, very simple although I guess there is a slight danger of it coming undone? Then you end up stabbing your calf muscle with an axe!
I once had crampons strapped to the outside of the lid of my pack and had forgotten to clip the lid closed. Bent down to drink from a stream and nearly knocked myself out as the crampons swung round and smacked me in the back of the head! Have kept crampon inside the pack since then!
I once had crampons strapped to the outside of the lid of my pack and had forgotten to clip the lid closed. Bent down to drink from a stream and nearly knocked myself out as the crampons swung round and smacked me in the back of the head! Have kept crampon inside the pack since then!
In reply to jamestheyip:
That is exactly the ones I used to replace the webbing-and-buckle affairs on my LA 'sac. Just add a length of bungee cord.
PeterM
> I found them too small to hook on the loop properly and tends to slip so I replaced them with this:
>
> http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLA2
>
> I think Burghaus rucksacks use them. They work better for winter (less clogging) and cost only 10p each!
>
> http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/show_product_info.php?id=CLA2
>
> I think Burghaus rucksacks use them. They work better for winter (less clogging) and cost only 10p each!
That is exactly the ones I used to replace the webbing-and-buckle affairs on my LA 'sac. Just add a length of bungee cord.
PeterM
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: Andy, standard axe loops in my view are next to useless. Although they secure the axe firmly to the pack, it is much slower to remove a tool than just shoveing em down the compression straps, or the elastic zig zag on the front.
Thats what i do anyway.
Arn't you being somewhat hipocritical considering you wrote that fancy way of attaching axes are next to useless and putting down compression straps is best in this months climb?
Thats what i do anyway.
Arn't you being somewhat hipocritical considering you wrote that fancy way of attaching axes are next to useless and putting down compression straps is best in this months climb?
In reply to Tom Ripley:
I find the main use of these fancy attaching methods is when I am certain I will not need my axes, i.e. the walk in, the cable car etc
They keep them nice and out of the way and prevent them stabbing people or ripping clothing etc.
As soon as there is a possibility I'll need them, I shove them down the compression straps or between my back and the sack as most sensible people do.
I find the main use of these fancy attaching methods is when I am certain I will not need my axes, i.e. the walk in, the cable car etc
They keep them nice and out of the way and prevent them stabbing people or ripping clothing etc.
As soon as there is a possibility I'll need them, I shove them down the compression straps or between my back and the sack as most sensible people do.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
The velcro versions are pretty useless. Bungee and clip can be tightened to grip.
Though as others have commented, fine for the walk in or keeping them just in case, but when in use in the side straps, or behind the shoulder straps (whichever is accessible) is a much better option.
The velcro versions are pretty useless. Bungee and clip can be tightened to grip.
Though as others have commented, fine for the walk in or keeping them just in case, but when in use in the side straps, or behind the shoulder straps (whichever is accessible) is a much better option.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: I go bungee, it's whats on my pack. However, my Millet has these fiddely little clips that the top bungee goes slips into to secure, and I have had a tool pop out more than once because of them.
In reply to Tom Ripley:
I would imagine from the OP, that he is doing a bit of research, like the thread he did on helmets - besides Tom, I bet you used the ice axe loops on your rucksack before you read HIS article and started using the side compression straps on your sack? Credit where it's due.
>
> Arn't you being somewhat hipocritical considering you wrote that fancy way of attaching axes are next to useless and putting down compression straps is best in this months climb?
> Arn't you being somewhat hipocritical considering you wrote that fancy way of attaching axes are next to useless and putting down compression straps is best in this months climb?
I would imagine from the OP, that he is doing a bit of research, like the thread he did on helmets - besides Tom, I bet you used the ice axe loops on your rucksack before you read HIS article and started using the side compression straps on your sack? Credit where it's due.
In reply to Mystery Toad:
What about a strap with a quick release buckle,you put the axe through a loop at the bottom of the rucksack and then close the quick release around the axe? I suppose it wouldn't be snug,but it might be snug enough to stop the axe from falling off the rucksack,if it was sewn on right it might work quite well.
Cheers
Tim
> (In reply to andy kirkpatrick)
>
> Neither. Bungie and velcro both fail.
>
> Neither. Bungie and velcro both fail.
What about a strap with a quick release buckle,you put the axe through a loop at the bottom of the rucksack and then close the quick release around the axe? I suppose it wouldn't be snug,but it might be snug enough to stop the axe from falling off the rucksack,if it was sewn on right it might work quite well.
Cheers
Tim
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: has to be bungee as its easy to use winter or summer and with or without gloves. also is easily replaced. works really well on the OMM packs i have.
In reply to task-o: The article came out this month. I cut the loops off my sack a year ago, cos they annoy me.
In reply to Tom Ripley: why exactly did u cut the loops? weight saving?
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Velcro seems cheap & if it gets snow covered etc probably won't work. I use the Berghaus bungee clip things or just stick the axes down the sides of the sac.
Velcro seems cheap & if it gets snow covered etc probably won't work. I use the Berghaus bungee clip things or just stick the axes down the sides of the sac.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
What about doing the same as with your crampons. shove 1,the hammer probably into the sack and shove the other down between your shoulder blades. This way it can be got at when you need it and without the tendency to wait until the last minute.
What about doing the same as with your crampons. shove 1,the hammer probably into the sack and shove the other down between your shoulder blades. This way it can be got at when you need it and without the tendency to wait until the last minute.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
got a bit of bungee and plastic on me Needle pack and velcro on my Acrux so it depends which pack i'm using!
got a bit of bungee and plastic on me Needle pack and velcro on my Acrux so it depends which pack i'm using!
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Another vote for storing your axes behind your compression straps.
Bungee axe loops are useful though -when you've tucked the lid out the way inside the sack they give you somewhere to put the lid fastening straps.
Another vote for storing your axes behind your compression straps.
Bungee axe loops are useful though -when you've tucked the lid out the way inside the sack they give you somewhere to put the lid fastening straps.
In reply to mattsccm:
I am, admittedly, entirely novice to the world of winter/ice climbing, but from your above post it seems that you are advocating shoving crampons between your shoulder blades and your pack. I can't believe this common practice - someone please enlighten a newbie.
Cheers
James
> (In reply to andy kirkpatrick)
> What about doing the same as with your crampons. shove 1,the hammer probably into the sack and shove the other down between your shoulder blades.
> What about doing the same as with your crampons. shove 1,the hammer probably into the sack and shove the other down between your shoulder blades.
I am, admittedly, entirely novice to the world of winter/ice climbing, but from your above post it seems that you are advocating shoving crampons between your shoulder blades and your pack. I can't believe this common practice - someone please enlighten a newbie.
Cheers
James
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
(blatant research hijack from alpkit)
With the tube format is there any reason why the ice axe isnt put in from the top, i've not seen this on a pack before but always thought that it would be a good idea as it doesnt matter so much about the buckle not being fastened.
The only down side that i could think of was if you took a fall then the spikey bits are closer to flailing arms etc.
How do people get on with tubes and really curved shafts?
cheers
Nick
(blatant research hijack from alpkit)
With the tube format is there any reason why the ice axe isnt put in from the top, i've not seen this on a pack before but always thought that it would be a good idea as it doesnt matter so much about the buckle not being fastened.
The only down side that i could think of was if you took a fall then the spikey bits are closer to flailing arms etc.
How do people get on with tubes and really curved shafts?
cheers
Nick
In reply to Alpnick:
I think two problems here:
1. if you or you rucksack fall upside down the axe might drop out unless a fixing is provided.
2. If the axe is long and stick out at the bottom it will be awkard for scrambling or putting the rucksack down on the ground.
Agree it's a good idea though. It will be very convinient if well designed.
I think I did put a pair of BD Viper through my BD Ice pack's tubes once. Vipers are pretty curved.
> With the tube format is there any reason why the ice axe isnt put in from the top, i've not seen this on a pack before but always thought that it would be a good idea as it doesnt matter so much about the buckle not being fastened.
> How do people get on with tubes and really curved shafts?
> Nick
I think two problems here:
1. if you or you rucksack fall upside down the axe might drop out unless a fixing is provided.
2. If the axe is long and stick out at the bottom it will be awkard for scrambling or putting the rucksack down on the ground.
Agree it's a good idea though. It will be very convinient if well designed.
I think I did put a pair of BD Viper through my BD Ice pack's tubes once. Vipers are pretty curved.
In reply to Alpnick:
Side compression straps and wand pockets work so well for technical axes that I wouldn't look beyond that as a solution. The only real problem is what to do with a single long walking axe - the bigger business problem is the marketing need for lots of bells and whistles!
The thing I'd really like on a sack is a lightweight (lighter than a Petzl or Grivel crampon bag to put inside the sack) external crampon pocket that lets the water drain out when you descend and the balled-up snow melts.
Side compression straps and wand pockets work so well for technical axes that I wouldn't look beyond that as a solution. The only real problem is what to do with a single long walking axe - the bigger business problem is the marketing need for lots of bells and whistles!
The thing I'd really like on a sack is a lightweight (lighter than a Petzl or Grivel crampon bag to put inside the sack) external crampon pocket that lets the water drain out when you descend and the balled-up snow melts.
I use a mac pac pursuit
Normal winter climbing = axes down the side + crampons in the sac. Will attach crampons on outside in alps if I need to get them on again.
If I'm walking into to camp + climb I have a tent + dry bag strapped to the sides. Axes then go in ice axes loops and are held with the buckles. It can be a pain to thread them but I'm only putting them there for the walk in so I'm not bothered. Crampons go in the bag or if I'm short of space on the outside in a bag.
Normal winter climbing = axes down the side + crampons in the sac. Will attach crampons on outside in alps if I need to get them on again.
If I'm walking into to camp + climb I have a tent + dry bag strapped to the sides. Axes then go in ice axes loops and are held with the buckles. It can be a pain to thread them but I'm only putting them there for the walk in so I'm not bothered. Crampons go in the bag or if I'm short of space on the outside in a bag.
In reply to Alpnick: tubes are all well and good, Nick. However to my mind they just add excess weight and faff to a rucksack. Also most axes these days are far to radically curved to work in tubes. just slotting your axes down either compression straps or a zigzag of esastic on the front works really well being simple and easy to remove.
Why change simpicity for a faffy gimmicky gadget that just adds extra weight?
Why change simpicity for a faffy gimmicky gadget that just adds extra weight?
In reply to Tom Ripley:
Dont get me wrong i'm all in favour of not having faff, and i wasnt really asking about wether people want tubes or not. What i'm really asking is that at the moment most designer's looking at Ice axe attachments would have a mental picture in their head with the Ice axe shaft pointing upwards. So they dont even consider other ways.
Is there a reason for this, or was it just something that happend.
I do see the point about the length of axes, and that long ones almost by default need to be attached the usual way up.
Cheers
N
Dont get me wrong i'm all in favour of not having faff, and i wasnt really asking about wether people want tubes or not. What i'm really asking is that at the moment most designer's looking at Ice axe attachments would have a mental picture in their head with the Ice axe shaft pointing upwards. So they dont even consider other ways.
Is there a reason for this, or was it just something that happend.
I do see the point about the length of axes, and that long ones almost by default need to be attached the usual way up.
Cheers
N
In reply to Alpnick:
i suspect it could have been a combination of adapting what was already there [strap loops at the bottom of the sack] and the frat of swinging your rucksack off your back and stabbing yourself in the leg with the spike!
would old-style long axes have fitted on the average backlength of sacks anyway?
i suspect it could have been a combination of adapting what was already there [strap loops at the bottom of the sack] and the frat of swinging your rucksack off your back and stabbing yourself in the leg with the spike!
would old-style long axes have fitted on the average backlength of sacks anyway?
In reply to Alpnick:
re tubes - I like them a lot. The reason you can't put the axe in shaft-down is that getting it out without taking the rucksack off would be impossible. With mine, I can reach round, press the buckle snap thing, and then pull the axe out into my hand. I don't think I could reach behind my shoulders and pull it upwards, and even if I could, the head would have to sit way too high for that to be convenient.
re tubes - I like them a lot. The reason you can't put the axe in shaft-down is that getting it out without taking the rucksack off would be impossible. With mine, I can reach round, press the buckle snap thing, and then pull the axe out into my hand. I don't think I could reach behind my shoulders and pull it upwards, and even if I could, the head would have to sit way too high for that to be convenient.
In reply to Caralynr: Girl you is lazy... I like - yecksemessh.
I like bungee's or sticking it down the compression straps. Had tubes for a while and found them a bit of a pain if you have fancy clippy leashes as the leashy bits get stuck all the time. PLus it adds weight and anything that means I don't have to reduce my doughnut intake is alright by me.
I like bungee's or sticking it down the compression straps. Had tubes for a while and found them a bit of a pain if you have fancy clippy leashes as the leashy bits get stuck all the time. PLus it adds weight and anything that means I don't have to reduce my doughnut intake is alright by me.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Ah, it depends.
I know it is not an issue in this country, but in New Zealand you occasionally have to bush-bash to access cilmbs. When pushing through thick bush you need as streamlined a pack as possible, so I put axes on the back of the pack. I have ripped a few axe attatchement points off doing this, so they need to be strong.
For attatchments to the back of the pack, I find bungy a bit bouncy and prefer something secure. Macpac's webbing and buckle solution works well. Or a clip, or bit of string and a knot. It doesn't really matter. I have not used velcro, but don't see the point. All this talk of being able to access an axe easily seems pointless to me. If i need it I will take my pack off and get it.
On a long walk in with a big pack I will put the axes down the side compression straps as it keeps the weight balance closer to your back.
If I am later using the same big pack on a climb, and it is empty, the floppyness of the pack means the side method is less secure and I will revert to the back of the pack method.
As an aside, the first 'alpine' trip I was ever on, I slipped on a log and impaled my forearm with the pick of the ice axe on the back of my pack. From now on I ensure the pick faces inward and not outward. It does matter.
Ah, it depends.
I know it is not an issue in this country, but in New Zealand you occasionally have to bush-bash to access cilmbs. When pushing through thick bush you need as streamlined a pack as possible, so I put axes on the back of the pack. I have ripped a few axe attatchement points off doing this, so they need to be strong.
For attatchments to the back of the pack, I find bungy a bit bouncy and prefer something secure. Macpac's webbing and buckle solution works well. Or a clip, or bit of string and a knot. It doesn't really matter. I have not used velcro, but don't see the point. All this talk of being able to access an axe easily seems pointless to me. If i need it I will take my pack off and get it.
On a long walk in with a big pack I will put the axes down the side compression straps as it keeps the weight balance closer to your back.
If I am later using the same big pack on a climb, and it is empty, the floppyness of the pack means the side method is less secure and I will revert to the back of the pack method.
As an aside, the first 'alpine' trip I was ever on, I slipped on a log and impaled my forearm with the pick of the ice axe on the back of my pack. From now on I ensure the pick faces inward and not outward. It does matter.
In reply to mike kann:
LOL!! Yes, admittedly leashes do tend to get stuck in the tubes, which isn't great. But without leashes they work really well.
Have a doughnut :P
LOL!! Yes, admittedly leashes do tend to get stuck in the tubes, which isn't great. But without leashes they work really well.
Have a doughnut :P
In reply to Caralynr: who cimbs with leashes?
In reply to Tom Ripley:
Lots of people. Did you have your eyes closed all winter?
Lots of people. Did you have your eyes closed all winter?
In reply to Caralynr:
My leashes are exactly the same length as to the end of the shaft, so I normaly cover the end spikes with the wrist padding which pushes through the tubes easily and covers the spikes safely.
My leashes are exactly the same length as to the end of the shaft, so I normaly cover the end spikes with the wrist padding which pushes through the tubes easily and covers the spikes safely.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick:
Bungee as velcro stops working as soon as it gets full of fluff or mud.
Bungee as velcro stops working as soon as it gets full of fluff or mud.
In reply to andy kirkpatrick: Another vote for buckle.
As lots of people have mentioned velcro ices up, and I find bungee a real pain in the arse, especially when I am using a walking axe.
As lots of people have mentioned velcro ices up, and I find bungee a real pain in the arse, especially when I am using a walking axe.
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