In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to MikeTS) Think you are making hard and fast rules for yourself here some of which you can easily pull to pieces if you tried.
I'm trying to find out enough to make my own best decisions and this thread had been very helpful.
>
> 1. The belay loop is best for belaying until you need to escape the system or just want more mobility at a belay when it is loaded. Do the experiement - load your belay plate on your belay loop as opposed to a tie in loop and you'll see what I mean. End of the day, both are safe, and you are very unlikely to die.
Surely you're still in the system if you belay off the F8?
> 2. Backing up the belay loop is totally unnecessary.
As someone earlier said, when do you stop with the redundancy? Personally I don't think I'll be doing this.
> 5. Tying into your belay loop is fine, but certainly not recommended best practice. Best practice is to tie in as suggested as per manufacturers instructions every time.
Not all manufacturers agree. And I've been at climbing walls where they insist you do this. Personally I'd only do this for top roping, esp if you're running a lot of beginners up the cliff.
> 6. Crossloading, yep. But then again a carabiner is usually rated at 9kN in a crossloading. i.e. in reality a fair bit more. But then how would you crossload it unless you are threading it through leg loops and waist belt, i.e. against manufacturers instructions.
Agree, but I have had someone at crag argue that this is good practice - now I know why they're wrong!
> 9. Or be threaded back through the knot, although there are worries about doing this in some circles.
The stress tests I've seen on video seem clear that threading back may not be a good idea, and is certainly unnecessary.
> 10. Yep - but even if you do, seeing as the crossloading on most carabiners is 9kN, and the average factor 1 fall is about 7kN, you still have something in hand.
Agree. Would be interesting to know how this varies with biners: would a big heavy more rounded or D shaped screwgate do better than 9kN?