UKC

You'll have to have patience with me here; I've grown up in a world of fleece and synthetic wonderfulness, and I've never worn a woolly jumper since the age of five.

...until recently that is. I bought a couple of lightweight pullovers to try to stop dressing like a teenage reprobate and start dressing my age. Walking down the street in some reasonable rain, wind and cold the other day, wearing a shirt and the aforementioned thin jumper, I realised I wasn't at all cold. It did a reasonable job of stopping the wind, and the rain just beaded up on the surface. By the time I got on the train ten minutes later I didn't feel any wetter than when I left the house.

Which leads me to wonder why people stopped wearing wool in the hills as a midlayer in favour of fleece and more recently jackets like the Nano Air. Is there a major disadvantage that I'm missing (other than your sweater gaining 10kg if it does become thoroughly soaked), or is it all down to clever marketing and fashion?

I'm very tempted to experiment and buy a Guernsey sweater for this winter...

I try to buy as many things as possible made from natural fibers. This means that I wear a lot of merino wool, which I love.

I read an interesting article by several marine biologists about the biggest plastic pollutants in the oceans. They all said that plastic microfibers were the biggest problem. Our nice fluffy fleeces are the worst offenders for giving these off. Our washing machines don't filter them out, neither do water treatment plants, so they end up in the oceans and in our food chain. We really need to focus more on wool and silk to keep us warm!

It's heavy, very bulky to pack and like you say absorbs a lot of water. My experience of woolens is that the wind howls through them, but then that's the case for a lot of mid layers and I suppose the more felted wool clothing would be more effective at blocking the wind than fleece.

I used to wear a long woolen shirt for winter routes, it did the job but modern alternatives are better suited to changing temperatures, changing levels of activity and the generally damp and drizzly Scottish weather, in my opinion anyway. Modern clothing is also a lot better fitted for being active in, your casual woolen jumper isn't going to stay tucked in when you're reaching up for a distant hook and because it's less fitted you'll be carrying more excess fabric around. I seem to remember it took about the same space up as my belay jacket when I packed it away and I stopped wearing it. Same with dachsteins, they work (on day one at least) and they do block the wind when they're iced up but unless you're heading back to somewhere nice and warm to spend the night then the feeling of sliding your hands into soaking wet or frozen solid woolen mitts in the morning is unpleasant to say the least. I remember being sorely disappointing after hearing how great they were but after using them I never discovered the appeal. I'm firmly in the fleece and gtx camp I'm afraid, I come back dry pretty much every time whatever the weather and it's all pretty light and dirt cheap these days. Why fix what isn't broken?

Just this week I dug out my wooly jumpers and plan to start wearing them again. Over the years (about 20) they've been worn loads and still looking pretty new, certainly fine for cragging in.

Marketing and fashion for sure have something to do with the change to synthetics.  

Have you tried merino wool? It's not bulky at all. It's also a lot less sweaty than synthetic layers. Natural fibers are much better at dealing with your body's temperature fluctuations. I even sleep with a feather duvet and pillows at home due to lack of sweatiness.

Many Scandinavian brands make well fitted and decently articulated wool mid-layers. Check out Aclima, woolpower, ullvang, fjallraven et al. Then there is of course Icebreaker.

All of which will be far more practical for the hill than a Guernsey sweater. To be fair tho, nothing really beats a merino baselayer and synthetic insulation mid-layer system for winter, especially if you change your baselayer before starting climbing.

I don't understand why people still use fleece nowadays.

With modern waterproof windproof jackets they shouldn't get wet at all.  

Far more environmentally friendly than fibre fleeces for the reasons stated. 

However  Wool jumpers:-

Need carefully washing to maintain shape.

Take quite a long while to dry out.

Unlike fleeces if you catch one on something sharp you are likely to pull several rows of knitting out.

Clothes Moth larvae like woollens.

But at least a woollen item of clothing will bio-degrade quite easily!

Ever looked at Ortovox? They insulate with wool and it's really light for the weight. I've got the DuFour Anorak and it's mega considering it weighs c.a. 250g. Mega breathable as well. 

https://www.ortovox.com/uk/shop/men/swisswool-light-pure/dufour-anorak-m/ 

Thank you all for the replies - some interesting food for thought. Some of those Scandanavian brands make some interesting things. Ulvang especially seem to make some nice wool midlayers and I might have to take a punt on one and see how it works out.

A suitably 'nordic' sweater over the top of a Brynje mesh base layer should easily see me the least fashionable person in Scotland...

Get a decent one ("Le Tricoteur") and they will last for decades.  I have two, one my father bought before 1980 and one I bought ~2000.  I won't need to buy another ever.  As you say they are warm, fairly water proof (and in any case warm when wet), and surprisingly windproof.

Mine are all muddy from use as goal posts

My standard cragging attire includes a thin woollen jumper and a pertex smock.  The former ties unobtrusively around my waist and the latter fits in a back pocket.  

you can buy a synthetic fiber base layer that will last for years for less than £10, a merino wool one that will last a similar length of time costs £50.

So yes marketing and fashion

As an habitual Guernsey wearer I can offer the following gems of info:-

Pros:-

They look smart when new.

They will save you loads of washing because they don't smell. I wear a Guernsey daily for work and wash it once every 6 months or so.

Proper Guernseys are made of worsted (long strand) wool which is pull-resistant, and the knit is relatively tight.  It's not perfect, but it's not like a woman's fashion jumper which will snag on rough hands.

The wool is oiled and thus pretty much drizzle-proof. They don't get very wet when washed either.

The cut isn't restrictive at all - gusseted sleeves and some stretch sees to that.  Don't forget, they were developed for fishermen, farmers and quarrymen, all very active jobs.

You can get them repaired if they wear out - it was common to have sleeves cut back and re-knitted when the elbows wore out. They take longer to wear out in the first place as there is no front and back.

Cons:-

Itchy. Not a problem if you can cope with it, or if you wear a long-sleeved shirt underneath them. You can buy non-itchy cotton ones but that defeats the object. Bulky compared to fleece. Need more care with washing and drying (handwash in techwash or soapflakes to avoid stripping the oil).

Caveat - I've not really climbed in mine, but I've done mountain stuff in them.

If you want the genuine article then you need to buy from Le Tricoteur, Guernsey Woollens, or Channel Jumper in Alderney. They're about £60.

I didn't plan on doing anything technical in it, but as a midlayer for mountaineering I thought it'd be worth an experiment - and the advantage is if it doesn't work out I can always wear it in the real world too and look no less unfashionable than usual.

In the end I bought an Ulvang Rav Kivi this morning (in a good obnoxious nordic pattern), and the Guernsey jumper might go on my Christmas list. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Follow-on question: does washing one in wool/silk detergent strip the oil too?

not a chance...I wear that title with pride!

It's not oil, it's lanoline, which is fantastically waterproof but no match for modern detergents I'm afaid.

There might be a few of us who feel we can compete for that title! Lol! My general approach on any one day is trying to get as many different colours on at the same time. Clashing is absolutely fine by me!

I do that under the pretence of making myself or my corpse more visible to the whirlybird - but really it's just because bright colours make me happy.

Of course, the only time I needed the whirlybird I'd thrown on my rock-coloured downie over my lurid shell long before it arrived. Hmm.

I recall once reading that when wool gets wet, it generates heat?

Apparently true. However its difficult to imagine the heat is significant and its a once off until dried out again. On drying, eg while wearing, an equivalent amount of heat will be used up regenerating this property.

Wool is often my first choice of mid layer. It is not heavy, indeed it is often lighter than synthetic products.

I learnt to knit 30 years ago whilst I was a stay at home Dad. It's a great skill to learn.

[img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1948/44488033744_d770dfb29d_c.jpg[/img]
 

Those are excellent looking jumpers! What a great skill. 

Thanks. I mostly knit in the traditional style, in the or round on circular or 4 needles. So no seams.

If you are planning on going for Wool be a bit careful with your laundry detergent; I always avoided biological washing detergent for wool as it ruins them but it seems that a lot of non-bio now shouldn't be used on wool and silk. I would assume this is a result of manufacturers reformulating to work better at lower wash temperatures and using more aggressive surfactants to compensate. The only wool safe washing detergent in Tesco was the special super delicate hand washing stuff (I was bored and read every bottle).

I had that experience recently, having noticed that my usual detergent has a 'no wool' warning on the back and not wanting to ruin the couple of nice jumpers I just bought. Eventually found some machine-usable wool and silk detergent, but I think I'll be cautious and only wash 'technical wool' (or the aforementioned Guernsey) in Tech Wash as per Toerag's recommendation.

I used to hate wool, as I always found it scratchy and itchy (apart from in socks). All my outdoors stuff was synthetic and most of my casual stuff was cotton. The downside of cotton is that it isn't very warm and does lose it's shape and I've had to bin some stuff where synthetics of the same age were still in shape.

Over the last few years, however, I have slowly been converted back to wool - specifically merino for jumpers, although my wife bought me a cashmere jumper, which is, I have to say, lovely.

Last year, I did a bit of remote bike touring where it wasn't going to be possible to rinse and dry synthetic base layers every day, so I bought some IceBreaker tops and have been pleasantly surprised how comfortable they are next to the skin.

I was, however, absolutely gutted when a moth ate a big hole in front of my favourite merino jumper - was a pain to get it in my size in the first place (had to have the last one posted from a branch in Scotland), but it was a fantastic colour and irreplacable Found the little bastard wrapped up dead in it!

I've actually recently been trying to get some more casual jumpers that aren't fleeces - got a cotton one in White Stuff, but I did also gave in to a synthetic Mountain Equipment one. It is, however, really nice to wear.

My Father-in-Law passed away recently and left behind a pile of about 14 merino jumpers - sadly all far too big for me.

That must be why the Welsh hills are awash with burning sheep

Long time wool fan. Then again, climbing for 30+ years in Alanaustinshire it came with the territory. During my modest winter climbing and alpine heyday in the late 80's/early 90's, my first layers were almost always a long sleeved merino and thin lambs wood round neck jumper. Supplemented by a fleece/shell as necessary.

BHS, M&S, Next, all sold good quality uk made lambs wool jumpers which followed the pattern of 1) for best, then 2) for work in the office, and finally when needing darning 3) for climbing until nothing left to repair.not noticed any great improvement with my super duper fleeces, except they have hoods.

these things were effectively free after a life as work garment.