UKC

After several weeks of posting an no replies, it unfortunately looks like 3 cams and nuts I had to leave to avoid disturbing a gul have been stolen. 
 

I was aware of the risk when abandoning the route however I hoped I’d be able to retrieve them or someone else. 
 

Lost gear: 

Blue Wild Country zero friend

blue small dmm dragon

yellow wild country friend

various dmm nuts (offsets and walnuts)

All in fairly shiny condition. 
 

If you have them or know someone who has them PLEASE get in touch. 
 

Thank you,

Jamie

Email me at: [email protected]

In reply to Jbest:

Isn't it less than 4 days since you first posted about this?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/lost+found/lost_3_cams_on_surrealist_pitc...

It's not that long really, so you might yet be lucky.

In reply to Jbest:

Given that you might not get your gear back, would you do it again? Or would the Gul get some rough treatment?

Your list seems to be north of £250? With brutal honesty, I think my limit for animal disturbing (?) might be lower.... 

In reply to Jbest:

Could they still be on the route? 

In reply to Jbest:

Is it just me or is describing gear one has abandoned and then, possibly, someone else has found (that would have in the good old days been called crag swag) as stolen a bit harsh?  In my mind you left it behind not had it taken from you without your permission, or am I just being an old romantic? 

In reply to Exile:

There is a crime of "Theft by finding"

There are two log book entries from previous years mentioning a gull's nest and recommending staying well clear at this time of year.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

The exception is if the 'property' is genuinely abandoned. You could argue both ways on this one, I'd have thought. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I know. I don't think it would stand up legally as the gear was intentionally left behind rather than lost. 

In reply to Fraser:

Just read your post - sorry for basically repeating what you said. 

In reply to Exile:

I'm of the "crag-swag" generation, but I do have some sympathy for the OP, leaving all that kit must sting a bit! I bet next time they retreat from a route it'll be off a couple old nuts and older carabiners

In reply to Andy Hardy:

The op made one post several weeks after they abandoned the gear, so he can't have been that desperate to get it back. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I bailed off Paragon due to sea gull interest in the early 90s leaving only a hex and a krab.

Note. If anyone retrieves it, enjoy. 

In reply to tspoon1981:

It seems a little odd to wait 'a few weeks' before posting about the gear.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I think he's a new member here, only joining to post about his lost gear.  

In reply to Exile:

I think taking a couple of nuts, biners etc is fair game. Ive lost some, i’ve found some. It all evens out in the end.

Taking 3 new looking cams shows a bit of a lack of empathy to be honest. I feel like most climbers you ask nowadays would try to return even a single cam. I’ve checked UKC, whatsapp and facebook and I can’t see that such an attempt has been made to return the items.

For context, Jamie is my friend.

I’ll agree that he probably could have bailed on two bomber pieces and retrieved the rest on the way down/waited a while then ascending the rope to retrieve the other kit. That is what I would have done.

He’s quite a young guy, so a bit naive to how to deal with these things. He emailed the local area BMC access rep on the day of the incident, and had discussion with other people about getting the kit back.

With that said, please keep in mind that this person has lost kit that they cannot afford to replace, and that they have left it there with the best intentions and have been left feeling quite let down by the whole affair.

Thanks,

Jack Marshall

In reply to JackMarshall:

I certainly do have sympathy, and I'm sure most other posters do too. I think what's got people's backs up is the implication in the original post that whoever found the gear must be aware of his attempts to get it back and is therefore a thief who's ignoring them, and the complete lack of any reflection on personal responsibility for the outcome.

The vast majority of climbers still don't regularly visit UKC or Facebook groups, and a smaller but still significant number wouldn't even be aware of their use for reuniting gear with the original owner or wouldn't know where to start with accomplishing that. You say you've checked "UKC, Facebook and WhatsApp" as if that's definitive but only the first of those venues has a single clear place to be checked. Facebook and WhatsApp both have countless separate climbing groups and no obvious central place to share lost gear info. What proportion of climbers do you realistically think are aware of who lost that gear and how to get it back to them? If the gear isn't tagged (and I assume it would have been mentioned by now if it was), it's entirely likely that whoever found it either has no idea how to contact the owner, doesn't think it's worth bothering, or has made some attempt to do so but not in a place you/they happen to have checked.

In reply to JackMarshall:

I don't disagree with any of that Jack - I've certainly lost gear back in the day that I struggled to replace.

However, I've made an effort to get some rock boots and an Edelrid capture device, that I have found at crags in the last month or so, back to the owners through messages on here and locally and not had any joy. What I conclude from this is that not everyone, even if they are looking for their lost kit, uses ukc etc. So making the assumption that somebody has seen your friends post and decided not to return his gear, and therefore describing it as stolen irked me a little. 

Personally I wouldn't abandon kit and expect to see it again. If I did that would be a bonus. But that is a personal thing I guess and not really what I was posting about. 

In reply to JackMarshall: I agree with you on this. There is a clear difference between a stuck nut or cam and a cluster of gear, I think most climbers know where to draw the line.
Encouraging him to escape off less gear(someone suggested one piece) next time is potentially dangerous, he may not yet have the skills to make good gear placements.

There are a climbers in the UK that think everything is fair game in terms of nicking stuff whether its in a route or stashed somewhere, justifying their actions with ‘I was cleaning up the crag’ or ‘I’m from an era when everything was crag swag’. Well you can clean up the crag and if what you clean up is clearly not just an abandoned bit of stuck gear you can try and return it. If you are from the crag swag era then maybe move with the times. 

In reply to Tricky Dicky:

Registered October 2022

In reply to Luke90:

Fair comments Luke. Personally I wouldn’t have used the phrase ‘stolen’ if it were my post/my gear.

In reply to Martin Haworth:

In regards to escaping with less gear, this particular spot only really had one crack and it was tricky to build an anchor that I would’ve been comfortable trusting completely. I have been climbing for several years but not much experience online. I probably should have explained better that I climbed it when the bird restriction had finished and after the experience got in touch with rad to extend the restriction. A few weeks later they emailed to say there had been little activity so I returned to try and retrieve the gear. The bird is still there and there was a bit of gear near the top. (Since been reunited with). 
 

It was clear that someone had climbed the sport route to the right and had to abandon (probably due to the gul) because there was a locking carabiner on a bolt and the gear had been taken up to that point. I probably should’ve taken more responsibility and acknowledged that there’s always a risk of losing gear when climbing but I personally would never keep gear of that much value when it’s clear there was a reason for abandoning the route. 
 

Thank you for your understanding

In reply to Jbest:

Tough tags are extremely useful 

In reply to JimR:

Second that

In reply to Jbest:

If it was a sport climber who's nicked it then you're unfortunately never getting it back, as they're the dregs of society. Sub-human scum. 

In reply to PaulJepson:

I realise you're just being deliberately provocative and rather childish, but why would a sport climber 'steal' trad gear?

In reply to Fraser:

Because it's there.

In reply to Sir Chasm:

Ah yes. Practice for the greater ranges, I suppose. 😄

In reply to Fraser:

So they can hang it like some kind of charm from the rear-view mirror of their massive stealth Sprinter. They might even look at it once or twice and wonder if they should give that 'proper climbing' a go some time but they'll conclude that the approaches are much too challenging to do in crocs and you don't get to lie around or say 'sick' enough.

In reply to PaulJepson:

I see. So when you did all those sport routes representing ~25% of your logged climbs, was that back in the day when you too formed part of the "dregs of society", or would you say it was just a phase you were going through and now know better?

I realised we're not supposed to feed the troll or divert the OP but what the heck, I have a short amount of time to kill. 

In reply to Fraser:

What you've dug up there is hard evidence that he's joking. Which I think most of us already assumed.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Yes, but if the property appears to be abandoned rather than lost, it may not be theft by finding?

Maybe OP was confused, they weren't gulls nesting, they were magpies 😉

In reply to Luke90:

Although Paul is opening himself up a little to the response that it was more likely to be a self satisfied trad dad who nicked the gear because they wanted to add the cam to their already Yosemite-sized-hammer-free-aid rack of cams, which they use to convince themselves that as they shuffle up a 25 foot Burbage VS crack on a top rope formed by always placing one of the aforementioned cams above their head, that they are maintaining the noble traditions of adventure and alpha-maledom set by some bloke in the 50s (who we are all rather appalled by now, as a result of a biography revealing his terrible actions at the time). After these death-defying deeds they put their 170 quid approach shoes back on for the 8 minute walk back to the road, chuck their arcteryx pack in the back of their Skoda Octavia and drive home, probably listening to The Rest is Politics, ready to update their UKC Logbook and add in some ironically snide comments about how the route was a "virtual clip up", suitable for "the French" and those of "weak moral character" and how climbing was obviously better in the 70s before you had to worry about women and bolts, despite the fact that they were only 8 when Jardine invented Friends. 

And just in case anyone wasn't sure

And for any of my climbing partners reading this, clearly its not autobiographical, I've got a Ford and my approach shoes were on sale. 

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Yes , I respect that it’s not guaranteed that I’ll get them back. I didn’t intend on starting a debate about the ethics of returning gear. Neither did I intend to start an investigation into how long I’ve been a member. I never log my climbs or anything, I’m only interested if anyone has the cams or knows of someone who has them.

In reply to TobyA:

I think they'll also pause for a few insta photos or maybe a short piece to camera just in case any of their 'friends/followers' haven't heard they are climbers. (I know/knew someone who kept their rucksack in the hallway half behind the front door then apologised to all visitors for their 'climbing kit' being in the way, think he drove a MR2 then).

In reply to TobyA:

Fantastic stuff. Well done, sir. (FTR: Honda Jazz, no longer own any cams and I had to look up the podcast, but...)

So having disposed of both sport and trad climbers upthread, anyone care to have a go at  boulderers? Or are they just sport climbers who are afraid of heights?

(Apologies to the OP for a brutally callous threadjack, btw)

In reply to A.C.Gull:

Boulderers are just picnickers with notions. 

In reply to Jbest:

I was just being cheeky (which is common here). Although many people view it as "crag swag" I hope you get it back. One of the things that impresses me about UKC is how often people post about gear they've found and want to send back to an owner, no exaggeration.. sometimes even a single wired nut!

No use this time, but I recently got some of these sticky label, https://www.toughtags.co.uk/climbing-tags/ maybe something for you to consider in future 

Good luck being reunited with your kit

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Yes, toughtags are great. Apart from anything else, it makes it very difficult for your mates to "accidentally" Nick your kit...

In reply to Jbest:

I got Tom and my mobile number on my tags, but with hindsight I really should've put the phone number in +44 7xxxxxx format not 07xxxxx. Occured to me while abroad last week. Bother! 🤬

In reply to CantClimbTom:

I recently found some relatively new kit in a popular spot, so can't have been there that long.  It was complete with toughtags, so I messaged the mobile number immediately.

No response of any kind received... Which I did find puzzling really.

In reply to Derek Furze:

Ah, that's mine. I knew I'd left it somewhere. If you can remind me what I left, I'll help organise its safe return back to me.

In reply to Jbest:

Found, not stolen. 

Maybe, shock horror the person who found it doesn't post on here