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2020 Mustang recall: brake failure (automatic)

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Timmd 01 Oct 2020

As the title says. If you've a 2020 automatic gearbox Ford Mustang, the bracket which holds the brake pedal seems to have been made weakly/cheaply enough that it could snap.

https://www.motor1.com/news/445932/2020-ford-mustang-recall-brake/

I guess they may have tried to maximise profits after calculating the cost when added together of the brake pedal brackets, and made them slightly more cheaply.

It seems a slightly odd mistake given it's importance, but I don't suppose they'll do it again.

Post edited at 21:34
6
In reply to Timmd:

Fascinating and relevant

11
 Co1in H 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

Must move my Fiesta out of the way and get the Mustang to the dealer!

Hope you have one, despite this recall it's a great car.

 Timmd 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Co1in H:

I don't drive (yet) TBH, it just seemed dangerous enough to be worth sharing, in case somebody knows somebody who has one etc, it shouldn't be that something like this can happen in 2020 still...

Post edited at 23:09
 wintertree 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

Who even buys the automatic version of the Mustang?

 Timmd 07 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

Search me. 

 Ridge 08 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> Who even buys the automatic version of the Mustang?

Americans

 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> Americans

It’s a good theory.  But... 47% of the used RHD Mustang GTs for sale on Autotrader are automatic though.  This astounds me.  Perhaps we have a lot of home sick Americans over here.

Then again I was tempted to start saving for the new Corvette C8 ready to buy a used one in a few years - the first RHD ‘vette and the first to launch in the UK, 6.2 litre V8, mid engined and a robotic dual clutch gearbox with flappy paddles.  Priced at a third of a comparable Porsche - if you can compare a naturally aspirated American V8 with a small euro engine turbocharged off it’s nuts.   But it’s brake by wire without hydraulics.  That’s a hard no from me.  Our last car had a total failure of the electronic ABS/emergency brake module but when I rammed my food down hard it still stopped despite some weird pulsating behaviour.

Post edited at 08:32
1
In reply to wintertree:

>  compare a naturally aspirated American V8 with a small euro engine  

Not many contexts where a 3.7 litre engine could be described as "small" but this is one.

As to "who would even buy a Mustang automatic?"  -  who would buy a four cylinder 2.3 version?

Post edited at 08:40
 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> As to "who would even buy a Mustang automatic?"  -  who would buy a four cylinder 2.3 version?

My cognitive dissonance is so strong with this that I pretend it doesn’t exist.  

 Eric9Points 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

> I guess they may have tried to maximise profits after calculating the cost when added together of the brake pedal brackets, and made them slightly more cheaply.

Yes the change from nylon to polypropylene must have saved them at least 3 pence.

American cars are cheap and shit. I'm afraid that's about the size of it.

5
In reply to Eric9Points:

I've just read about a report which suggests that 40% of a new car's price is due to the electronics.  If I could buy a new car for 40% less and sacrifice the entire infotainment package, central locking, traction control , electronic handbrake, heated memory seats etc etc then I'd be happy to go cheap.

 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> I've just read about a report which suggests that 40% of a new car's price is due to the electronics.  If I could buy a new car for 40% less and sacrifice the entire infotainment package, central locking, traction control , electronic handbrake, heated memory seats etc etc then I'd be happy to go cheap.

It's called a pickup-truck, although the latest model years are finally caving in to all those things.

The new MX-5 RF folding hardtop has a bloody awful infotainment screen on the dashboard.

I'm pinning all my hopes on this - https://www.topgear.com/car-news/british/gordon-murrays-t43-sports-car-will-have-220bhp

1
 nniff 08 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

There's always a Caterham if you haven't got any more luggage than a pair of shoes and a chalk bag

 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to nniff:

> There's always a Caterham if you haven't got any more luggage than a pair of shoes and a chalk bag

I learnt to drive on a Morgan +8 so I feel the lure of the Caterham but I also know the reality of that kind of thing.  Which is wonderful but does require keeping another car for those days when it’s just not going to work out.

Post edited at 11:25
In reply to Eric9Points:

> American cars are cheap and shit. 

And iconic. Driving a borrowed  Mustang round the Pines campsite in Yosemite remains a favourite road tripping memory for me.

 Eric9Points 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> I've just read about a report which suggests that 40% of a new car's price is due to the electronics.  If I could buy a new car for 40% less and sacrifice the entire infotainment package, central locking, traction control , electronic handbrake, heated memory seats etc etc then I'd be happy to go cheap.

Yes but I'd still buy one that went round corners.

 Eric9Points 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> And iconic. Driving a borrowed  Mustang round the Pines campsite in Yosemite remains a favourite road tripping memory for me.

Yes.

The burglar alarm going off at 11.30 pm in my rented American shit heap in Momument Valley camp site was an unforgettable road trip memory for me.

As was a flat battery somewhere in the middle of Alaska in another of Uncle Sam's under designed rust buckets.

 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Yes but I'd still buy one that went round corners.

I've did 3,000 miles in the American south west about 13 years ago in a then-modern Mustang.  It went round corners just fine and the fit and finish wasn't bad, and by golly the price of one tempted me to take the job offer I had in LA - back then the £ was worth something...

In reply to Timmd:

"Mustang Sally, think you better slow your mustang down"

"Yes, I'm trying, Wilson, but the brake pedal doesn't seem to be working..."

Post edited at 14:41
 Arms Cliff 08 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> It’s a good theory.  But... 47% of the used RHD Mustang GTs for sale on Autotrader are automatic though.  This astounds me.  Perhaps we have a lot of home sick Americans over here.

Wouldn’t that include flappy paddle semi autos which seem like a popular option in lots of cars these days?

 Ridge 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> I've just read about a report which suggests that 40% of a new car's price is due to the electronics.  If I could buy a new car for 40% less and sacrifice the entire infotainment package, central locking, traction control , electronic handbrake, heated memory seats etc etc then I'd be happy to go cheap.

It wouldn't be 40% cheaper. A lot of the electronics are there to compensate for cost cutting in decent limited slip diffs, poor steering geometry and poor stability under braking.

 nikoid 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> And iconic. Driving a borrowed  Mustang round the Pines campsite in Yosemite remains a favourite road tripping memory for me.

For some reason everything is iconic these days.😀

1
In reply to nikoid:

> For some reason everything is iconic these days.😀

If being raced around the streets of San Francisco by Steve McQueen doesn't qualify you as an automotive icon, I don't know what does.

In reply to Ridge:

Ok I'll give you all that and more : I just don't want to pay a surcharge for being infotained because i don't need to be infotained.

All the materials involved in the infotainment package are surplus to what I want: the process of making them and ultimately, their disposal, involves a cost to the environment which is unjustifiable  because  they are beyond my needs ( and I believe the needs of many millions of other motorists) so why not give me the option of buying them or not, 

If I want a car to drive me from one place to another, let me make that journey in as simple and uncomplicated a way as possible, the same as if I'd jumped on a bike. Let me navigate myself and travel without the need to listen to music or make phone calls. I can't see why this is such a radical idea. ( Well, actually, I can  £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££)

2
 wintertree 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

I agree with Ridge that some of the electronics is plastering over missing things like a proper suspension setup or an LSD.

I agree with you that the infotainment is a pile of junk I don't want - and the displays are often so bad they're 10 years out of date on a nearly-new car let alone if you're buying 5 years old.

There is a counterpoint for having the display screen in there - some jurisdictions are now mandating reversing cameras, and more are expected too, so anyone designing a car without the display is limiting the future life of the model.  Then, who wants a car with a display that does nothing?

In reply to wintertree:

That smacks of  industry  leading the legislators by the nose. So it's probably true.

Post edited at 23:08
 capoap 08 Oct 2020
In reply to nniff:

I used my Lotus 7 most summer weekends in the 80s & 90s from Birmingham to Wales, with all camping & climbing gear and 2 people without any problem.  Thats with a proper tent a Vango.

And yes ive still got the 7 and the Vango Mk 4 that I used last weekend. Waste not Want Not

 nikoid 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> If being raced around the streets of San Francisco by Steve McQueen doesn't qualify you as an automotive icon, I don't know what does.

OK fair enough. Great film, great car but I just don't consider cars to be icons. 

2
 Ridge 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

<Looks around furtively>

I quite like my reversing camera.

<Takes the shame>

 wintertree 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Ridge:

I'm with you furtive self.

On a modern car with all the side impact systems and aerodynamic efficiency driven shape, the view out of the back is atrocious compared to that on ancient clunkers.  It's hard to argue against a reversing camera on grounds of safety or utility.  You want the best view possible when reversing 1.5 tonnes that has the potential to kill people.  

360 degree "birds eye" parking cameras however, that's the stuff that erodes manly life skills.

In reply to nikoid:

> OK fair enough. Great film, great car but I just don't consider cars to be icons. 

I called this photo American Icons (pretentious as charged). Would the other one featured meet your criteria, or do you only accept pictures of dead people with haloes and lashings of gilt?


 nikoid 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Clarke:

Nice photo. I'm not sure what my criteria are, my point/bee in my bonnet is that the word has become massively overused in quite a lazy way when many other descriptors would show more imagination.

Correspondence closed.

1
 anthonylewis 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

The automotive industry is highly focused on continuous savings. US, Europe, wherever. "American = cheap and shit" is a massive generalisation. Everyone does this. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Yes but......

I would still like the option.

And I suspect that a no frills car with more of an "analog" feel would be quite a seller. Dacia's share of the market is increasing and they make a point of emphasising the low-tech nature of their cars. Maybe this low-tech aspect of the brand is also a reason why they do so well in reliability surveys.

Post edited at 14:05
 LastBoyScout 09 Oct 2020
In reply to nniff:

> There's always a Caterham if you haven't got any more luggage than a pair of shoes and a chalk bag

I remember enjoying my breakfast on a campsite in Swanage while entertained by a couple packing their camping stuff into a Lotus Elise!

 LastBoyScout 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> 360 degree "birds eye" parking cameras however, that's the stuff that erodes manly life skills.

I agree. We've got that on the new car. The annoyance is that it seems to be in place of the feature that automatically changed the angle of the near side mirror when you put it into reverse, which I much preferred.

Don't get me started on the automatic parallel parking feature!

 gethin_allen 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Not sure I'd dump the traction control and central locking but the rest could go, especially the electronic handbrake.

Saying this, I've never owned a nice quiet car with a good stereo and I have found when driving hire cars that the journeys are much more pleasant when you can actually hear the stereo over the road/engine noise. So maybe I'd keep the stereo if I could hear it better.

 wintertree 09 Oct 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

> Not sure I'd dump the traction control and central locking but the rest could go, 

Me on looking at a new model Leaf: "Where's the TCS disable button gone"

Sales droid: "Why would you ever want to turn the TCS off?"

Me: "Because.  Now, how do I disable the TCS in this"? (Getting a bit worried by the disappearance of the button you see...)

Sales droid: "But I don't understand, why would you ever what to do that?"

Me: "Because.  Now, do you know if it is still possible or not?"

Sales droid: "No"

Me: "Do you mean that it is not possible, or that you do not know if its is possible"...

Etc...

I've occasionally turned my the stability control off in my old BMW in the snow, where I've had to resort to a handbrake to emulate an LSD.  

 Eric9Points 09 Oct 2020
In reply to anthonylewis:

> The automotive industry is highly focused on continuous savings. US, Europe, wherever. "American = cheap and shit" is a massive generalisation. Everyone does this. 

Nah.

Of course everyone designs out cost but the Americans really do come out with some real shit.

That's why no one buys US cars outside the US and lots of Americans drive foreign cars. Well that and dragging their heels on emissions standards.

2
In reply to Eric9Points:

Not the case. The US has been ahead for years on NOx emissions standards. Hence why the same European/Japanese model has significantly worse mpg here in the US than in Europe. 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/587331/IPOL_STU(2016)587331_EN.pdf

 gethin_allen 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

In the past I've been told by an insurance company that disabling the "driver aids" could result in an insurance claim being refused.

I've never needed to disable the "vehicle stability assist" as it is called in a Honda and I've never even managed to get it to kick in. The only reason I know it works is because my GF was asking me what the little flashing orange triangle meant.

 wintertree 09 Oct 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

> In the past I've been told by an insurance company that disabling the "driver aids" could result in an insurance claim being refused.

I've got an RWD car without a limited slip differential and the DSC and fallback TCS modes get confused if both drive wheels spin together - as on compacted snow/ice.  You can get out of a sticky situation feathering the handbrake to stop the wheels going bananas and making the situation worse in a both-spinning situation and then act as a poor-man's LSD until things get properly moving.

I can see no other reason to ever turn it off.  Nope, not me guv.

 >  The only reason I know it works is because my GF was asking me what the little flashing orange triangle meant.

One of the gripes I've got with the modern stability systems is you can drive something like an idiot with the little orange triangle covering up your sins; it should have a f**koff great mechanical thumper in the driver's seat to put the fear of god into people so they don't drive round relying on all that stuff to plaster over the gaps...

 wintertree 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> That's why no one buys US cars outside the US and lots of Americans drive foreign cars. 

Launching soon in the UK for the first time in 50 years - The Corvette, in Right Hand Drive.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/right-hand-drive-corvette-will-start-ps81700-uk

 Ridge 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> One of the gripes I've got with the modern stability systems is you can drive something like an idiot with the little orange triangle covering up your sins; it should have a f**koff great mechanical thumper in the driver's seat to put the fear of god into people so they don't drive round relying on all that stuff to plaster over the gaps...

My drive to work on dark icy roads was always cheered up by counting the very expensive 4x4s in the ditches after the computer gave up compensating for oblivious drivers who thought they could just drive as normal. That and abandoned BMWs whose computers said “Das is verboten” and wouldn't allow them the teeniest wheelspin trying to go uphill.

 gethin_allen 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

...

">  >  The only reason I know it works is because my GF was asking me what the little flashing orange triangle meant.

> One of the gripes I've got with the modern stability systems is you can drive something like an idiot with the little orange triangle covering up your sins; it should have a f**koff great mechanical thumper in the driver's seat to put the fear of god into people so they don't drive round relying on all that stuff to plaster over the gaps..."

I know what you mean, modern cars can make you feel so safe that some people get carried away.

In my GF's case it was when we hit some standing water in the third lane of a motorway. And, as if to make a point, later that journey, still in heavy rain and by now in the dark, a big Mercedes passed us very quickly before losing control and crashing into the central reservation before crossing 4 lanes of motorway backwards and coming to rest half in the first lane.

 wintertree 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Ridge:

My decade old 3-series has a button labelled “DTC”.  Press and hold for 5 seconds and all the computer intervention stuff is disabled.

The Teutonic disapproval is so strong you get two dedicated copies of the warning symbol as well as the master caution triangle...


 Hooo 09 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

I just can't get on with the reversing camera in my Leaf. I find it easier reversing my LWB Transporter with it's beeping sensors than I do the Leaf with the screen.

 capoap 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

TC & "And Driver Aids" !!!!!!! Try a Lotus 7 with 215 HP that weighs 520 KG and no LSD and will get all 4 wheels of the deck in 2 places going up the Pass.       I have my VRS for all that crap

 anthonylewis 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points: 

Look up California Air Resource Board (CARB) and then see if we're still sure about dragging their heels on emissions standards?

There's a difference between designing out cost and "coming out with real shit".

be a bit careful when talking about foreign cars as they may be more American than you might thing. On the basis of where they are designed, where the parts come from (look up NAFTA) and where they are built. Toyota and Honda spring to mind although I'd have to check. 

Lastly, fitness for purpose. Typically in the US they will drive more miles, on bigger, straighter roads. 

For sure some of their cars are not great and I have experienced that. But there are examples of comparably poor cars anywhere.

Cheers 

 sjminfife 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Timmd:

I still see the occasional recall for petrol tank ruptures in low speed shunts. I thought the Pinto would have put a stop to that but apparently not.

 wintertree 10 Oct 2020
In reply to anthonylewis:

> Lastly, fitness for purpose

Its true, if you’re going to signal “willing to race” at the lights on a 4-lane (per side) intersection you need a crappy torque converter and shitty suspension.  Finesse in steering isn’t so important to what happens shortly after.

 timjones 11 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> Who even buys the automatic version of the Mustang?

Somebody who appreciates that a modern performance auto box is nothing like older boxes?

 wintertree 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Hooo:

> I just can't get on with the reversing camera in my Leaf. I find it easier reversing my LWB Transporter with it's beeping sensors than I do the Leaf with the screen.

Old or new model leaf?  I hated reversing the old model, something about the optics of the mirror.  I still align and manoeuvre all my reversing off the mirrors - simpler, easier and far more precise, but if there’s a camera, checking the image when shifting gaze from one wing mirror to the other is effortless and a great comfort to see what is (not) in my reversing path.

 Hooo 11 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

Old model. Yes, I think that's where I've been going wrong, trying to reverse using the camera, when I should be using the mirrors and just checking the screen for obstacles. Which of course means beepers would be more use, as I could check them without looking. Or what would be even better is decent visibility out of the car. Is that too much to ask nowadays?

 wintertree 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Hooo:

> Or what would be even better is decent visibility out of the car. Is that too much to ask nowadays?

It seems you can have aerodynamic efficiency or rear visibility.  With a modern hard top convertible you can at least flip between the two...

Beepers tends to start kicking off well before contact which is great for unexpected obstacles but totally useless if you regularly park in or drive through a very tight spot.   I would love an option to limit the beepers to strictly collision warning for behind the car and not proximity apart on the diagonals out from the rear corners 

In reply to wintertree:

Just seen a Carwow test of the c8 - worth  a watch if you can stand the cheeky chappy's delivery (which I can)


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